PhD -vs- DMin

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Martin, Mar 26, 2005.

  1. Martin

    Martin
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  2. Nord

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    Thanks for sharing that. Good analysis.

    Here is a US Dept of Education site that lists the Dept of Ed/National Science Foundation classification all of the doctorates equivalent to the PhD. Some are professional but not to be confused with first professional degrees (DMin's, Ed.D's are listed in this category).

    http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ous/international/usnei/us/edlite-research-doctorate.html

    Then here is another US Dept of Ed professional degrees that are not doctorates equivalent to the PhD (in this category ar DC's, MD's, JD's) etc.

    http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ous/international/usnei/us/edlite-professional-studies.html

    Nord
     
  3. Paul33

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    Well I am certainly glad to know that the D.Min. degree that I'm working on is considered to be an equivalent to the Ph.D. I know that the research and writing of my dissertation and the structure of my programs is much more in line with a Ph.D. program and not some of the D.Min. programs that are out there.

    But in practice, no seminary or college is going to view the D.Min. as an actual equivalent to the Ph.D.

    Also interesting to note. All other professional first degrees terminate with a doctorate of some kind except for theology. In theology we earn the M.Div. Why is that. Why isn't it called the D.Div.?

    It almost makes me want to go to BJU to earn a Ph.D. in three years after the bachelor's degree.

    In fact, I'm considering it. BJU will probably only require an additional 50 hours to complete the Ph.D., since I already have an M.Div. and a D.Min.

    They are also seeking accreditation.
     
  4. Rhetorician

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    Paul33,

    I am not against BJU at all. I had a "BJU man" for my home pastor! And it has been lauded and trashed enought here as has been the accredited non-accredited issues/talk.

    Nonetheless, if you go to BJU and get a PhD where in the world are you going to use it? Would it be anywhere you would want to teach? It is for sure that you cannot use it @ an RA school to teach college, university, Christian LA university, or grad school of religion? The learning is outstandng and all that, their standards are exceitionally high; but NO ONE HARDLY ANYPLACE you would want to be will care (unless of course you want to teach there)? And to teach there is OK too, as long as you know what you want and what you have going into the deal. So what is the point?

    I noticed in a prior post that you bemoaned the fact of the seminary MDiv degrees and their lenght. The arguements seem rather circular with those of other threads and posts. Do we care about the "short route" to a PhD just because it is Christian Ed and Theology; or do we care to do our best for our Lord and His Kingdom's work at whatever the personal costs? Think about it!

    Please advise!?

    sdg!

    rd
     
  5. gb93433

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    Think about who the profesors are who are teaching those in the D.Min. programs--Ph.D.'s.
     
  6. Paul33

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    That's a good point, Rhetorician. The only place would appear to be independent, fundamental Baptist colleges like NBBC, MBBC, PBBC, FBBC, DBTS, etc.

    I looked at their web site today, and had to write them off again. Every single professor has his earned degree form BJU. BA. MA. Ph.D.

    So little diversity. I actually attended BJU for half of my undergrad program. Good teachers, lousy administration.
     
  7. Paul33

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    My point about length of time is this. If a kid gets a religion/bible undergraduate degree, it shouldn't take him seven more years (M.Div and Ph.D) to earn a Ph.D.

    I wish BJU was in the mainstream of Biblical Christianity and not on the lunatic fringe.
     
  8. Nord

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    Paul,

    Truly...regardless of what the US Dept of Ed/National Science Foundation says, a PhD is...well....a PhD. It has far more utility especially in academia. In fact there has been extensive discussion on degreeinfo.com about the topic and it seems that although an EdD is for all intents and purposes the equivalent, there is a difference in perception. The PhD is the creme de la creme of doctorates. There was even a story about a person with an EdD who was not called "Dr." by staff (Civil Service) because they saw only a PhD as a doctorate (stupid ....sure but nonetheless). Other stories of similar downgrading of the EdD in comparison to the PhD.

    Now, as to someone's comment about a D.Div instead of MDiv. You are correct. Very few professions endure the same amount of academic preparation for low pay and a Masters degree (not to mention the language requirements). Lawyers (who used to earn an LLB and had it inflated to a JD) earn a doctorate for their 90 credits after the Bachelors. Same with Pharmacy, etc. On the US Dept of Ed web site, these degrees are not considered academically on par as a degree title with a DMin or PhD but nonetheless the degrees have doctorate in the title (not to mention they have a lot of prestige and better salary attached).

    Incidentally, while lawyers here earn JD's in Canada and Britain they still earn LLB's. In Britain and Australia medical doctors earn bachelors in Medicene (and are called Dr.).

    Academics are a crazy world.

    Nord
     
  9. Paul33

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    Great information, Nord.

    You can just start calling me "Doctor!"

    I bet very few people think a J.D. is below a D.Min.
     
  10. El_Guero

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    Paul33 ... what is DBTS?
     
  11. Paul33

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    Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary
     

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