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Discussion in 'Books / Publications Forum' started by Terry_Herrington, Dec 15, 2002.
I am reading my second book from Philip Yancey. I was wondering what others here think of him.
He's excellent. Probably my favorite work of his is "Disappointment with God", but "The Jesus I Never Knew" and "What's So Amazing About Grace?" are also tremendous.
I think "Disappointment With God" should be required reading for all believers. It is a good antidote to a lot of modern American ideas about suffering and pain.
Yancey has a wonderful gift when it comes to writing. His works have challenged my thinking. He seems to enjoy painting close to the lines at times in order to generate thought. I appreciate his works and highly recommend them.
His "Christmas" chapter from The Jesus I Never Know is an excellent public and/or private read during the holidays.
I read "The Jesus I Never Knew". It was interesting. Not that I agreed with everything he said.
Yancey is just another...
see this review of his book - What is so amazing about Grace?
Certainly no one is claiming inerrancy for Yancey...
I read the review.
While the reviewer certainly has some interesting points, I think he has missed so key elements that Yancey was trying to convey. Grace is a certainly a scandal and Yancey makes no bones about how difficult it can be.
I think the real issue for the reviewer is the negative portrayal of people who have made *false* accusations about people like homosexuals or Bill Clinton or have at least *assumed the worst* about people who live lifestyles contrary to God's word instead of seeing them as people in need of God and His grace. Certainly there is a fine and sometimes difficult line between loving and supporting the person and not supporting the sin or condoning sinful actions. Unfortunately, most "conservative" believers don't seem to struggle with this too much and stay firmly on the side of judgment (often the self-righteous judgment) and cast stones at believers who are trying to be vessels of God's grace. Others (often liberals) tend to withhold righteous judgment and simply extend grace no matter the consequences. They often cast stones at believers who make any sort of judgment about sin.
I think Yancey is trying to walk the fine line that gets him in trouble with both extremes of the religious community. In a similar way, Jesus was well-received by sinners by not so well by the religious people.
I'm certainly glad I read this book prior to reading this review. While I may have been wearing "rose colored glasses" when reading, it seems that this reviewer must have had mud on his.
This is almost like watching a movie after reading the book. The movie may be based on the book, but it sure seems like a totally different version.
I would certainly need to know more about this
before I would place much stock in his opinions after seeing the difference in his take on this book, and mine.
Granted, Yancey is not infallable, but I trust the H S to guide me when there is some subtle un-truth that should be avoided.
In other words, I like Yancey very much; at least what I've read so far!
Have you actually read anything of Yancey's?
Have you read "What's So Amazing About Grace?"?
Just trying to get your perspective...
Yancey's book is not so much about grace as it is about legalism and holiness. He seems to blur the lines between those two, unfortunately.
Can you give me an example or two?
BB, I have not read the book. That is why I only posted the review and not an extensive commentary.
Knowing what I do about Yancey, I suspect it has very little to do with actual grace. It probably has everything to do with today's pop grace.
Okay... I can respect that. Are you planning to read it?
What does that mean? What do you "know about Yancey" and what do you mean by the term "actual grace"?
What's "pop grace"?
[ December 19, 2002, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]
I have heard Yancey but not read his book. I think he is theologically weak. I realize you and I differ in alot of areas, so you might disagree. I have a real problem with him supporting the TNIV.
Actual grace is what I believe Paul teaches as found in Titus 2:11-13. Grace motivates, directs, and empowers us for godly living.
Pop grace is just how I describe what many today say about grace. To them, it is some mystical feeling or attitude that tends to be antinomian in all practicality. The cry of legalism is too quick.
For example (I am not saying this is Yancey but the "pop grace" I am trying to describe):
I am not a legalist because I believe women should not be elders or deacons.
I am not a legalist because I believe rock music is by nature, wrong.
If you disagree, that is up to you. It isn't legalism though. Do you see what I am saying? You can apply it to just about anything.
We probably do. I don’t see that many weaknesses in his theology.
I see. I don’t recall if you claim to be KJVO… Is it because of the way gender is rendered in the TNIV text? (I’m not trying to start a debate, I just want to understand your position.)
Indeed. You are certainly correct that grace empowers the Christian walk, but grace is also forgiving those who have wronged and also extending the love and mercy of God to others. I have read a number of Yancey’s books and I don’t think he is teaching anything different about grace than you have expressed.
Yes. That’s false grace.
No you’re not. You most likely have that conviction because you understand the Bible to teach that perspective. That’s not legalism, that’s an honest difference of opinion. To call you a legalist would be making a false judgment. (I don’t think Yancey would see you as a legalist either.) But if you declared that everyone who doesn’t see the issue exactly the way you see it is assuredly a non-believer or “calling God a liar”, then you are probably imposing a legalism on others.
Again, not a legalist if you recognize that there are honest differences of opinion about the matter among true God-honoring believers. (I don’t think Yancey would call you a legalist here either.)
If you disagree, that is up to you. It isn't legalism though. Do you see what I am saying?
See BB, you aren't so bad. You just have some kinks to work out and you can believe just like me, thus proving you are saved .
Seriously though, I just finished another semester at seminary and I already have to catch up on about 20 books. I would read it if I had the time.
Btw, I am not KJVO. I believe sensationalism is wrong. I am NKJVO and NASBO and ESVO. I hope that clears up that issue.
Also, I am pretrib but against LaHaye and his Left (his brain) Behind.