Philippians 2:12

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Eladar, Feb 9, 2002.

  1. Eladar

    Eladar
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Philippians 2:12

    Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In Phillipeans 1, Paul says this about the people he is writing to:

    Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

    Yet these very same people he believed to be apart of the elect and have already accepted Jesus Christ, he instructs:

    work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

    How can once saved always saved be true, if we are to work our our salvations

    [Not edited for content, but to correct spelling in the title]

    [ February 09, 2002: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    "Work out your own salvation" refers to living the Christian life. Perform according to who you are.
     
  3. rlvaughn

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    How could we work out that which we do not possess? The great work God has performed and is performing in us ought to be of the greatest concern as we attempt to live a Christian life.
     
  4. Eladar

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    How could we work out that which we do not possess?

    You work it out so that you can possess it. If you already have it, why work it out?

    Besides, doesn't this scripture suggest our salvation is based on our works?
     
  5. Kellisa

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    It is interesting to me that right before he says this he is talking about having the same mind as Christ. Christ is God right, he has no need of being saved, he is the Savior but he still worked (why because he loved God and us and wanted to make provision for our sin) out God's plan by dying on the cross for our sin. Christ worked for God just as we are to work for God, we don't work for salvation we work because we are saved and we desire to serve God. Just as Christ worked out the plan of salvation we are to work out God's plan for us once we are saved. This does not mean that we lose salvation simply because we don't work for the Lord, only that it is what is expected and taught. Many will be saved as by fire, but we should long to be clean vessels to be used of the Lord.
     
  6. Eladar

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    Just as Christ worked out the plan of salvation we are to work out God's plan for us once we are saved. This does not mean that we lose salvation simply because we don't work for the Lord, only that it is what is expected and taught.

    Who's to say that God's plan for salvation isn't a process? This life could be a proving ground. By our works our heart is revealed.
     
  7. Chick Daniels

    Chick Daniels
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    Gerald Hawthorne in his Philippians commentary in the Word Biblical set articulates a view that I am toying with buying into, that soteria here is earthly and temporal, versus relating to God's gracious work in bringing undeserving sinners to heaven. In Philippians 1:19 Paul used soteria in this very way:
    NASB: "For I know that this shall turn out for my deliverance (soteria) through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ" The argument is that with theologically loaded words, the interpreter often forgets less theological possible applications. In chapter 1, Paul was talking about his problems from which he longed for deliverance (salvation). In 1:28, he begins talking about the Philippians problems: "in no way alarmed by your opponents." It is not a stretch then to see Paul telling them to work out their own deliverence (salvation) from their opponents because God is at work in them and will accomplished His will and good pleasure.

    Of course, it could be that Paul has eternal salvation from hell in mind, and if he did, he is viewing salvation as a whole, not limiting it to the moment of regeneration. In other words, real, genuine salvation works (cf. James 2) He is in no way advocating a works salvation, rather, genuine salvation will result in works.

    Chick
     
  8. tyndale1946

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    I've heard some tell me because I believe as our doctrine teaches in once saved always saved. If I believed like you did I would go do anything I wanted. The flip side to that is if we don't work out our own salvation with fear and trembling after we have been given these eternal truths we are in very deep trouble. Not that we will lose our eternal salvation but God can make it hell on earth until we repent.

    Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God... I don't say this off the top of my head this is from previous experience... I've been there!... The Lord took me to the Holy Woodshed!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  9. Kellisa

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tuor:
    Just as Christ worked out the plan of salvation we are to work out God's plan for us once we are saved. This does not mean that we lose salvation simply because we don't work for the Lord, only that it is what is expected and taught.

    Who's to say that God's plan for salvation isn't a process? This life could be a proving ground. By our works our heart is revealed.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    God says in his word that when you believe you are saved, nowhere will you find that it is a process of believeing and doing works, it is obvious that it is not of works. I'm sure you've heard all the scripture. By what you are saying, you claim that it is by works. God's word plainly states it is not.
     
  10. Eladar

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>God says in his word that when you believe you are saved <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Where?
     
  11. Eric B

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    It seems the confusion is between work OUT and work FOR. "Out" signifies something we have, but must bring to fruition, sort of like to "wait out", "ride out", "grow out", etc.
     
  12. Eladar

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    When you work something out, it generally means it isn't complete. If we are already saved, then there wouldn't be anything to work out. Notice, it is the salvation Paul instructs to work out. Therefore, Paul must believe that although he believes these people to be apart of the elect, they still have to complete the work that has been started. Their salvation is not yet complete.

    If their salvation was complete, then they wouldn't need to work out their salvation.
     
  13. Kellisa

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tuor:


    Where?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Come on, it sems to me you are just being ridiculous. Either you accept the word of God or you do not, seems you would rather change it and it's meaning than accept it.

    John 3:16 one of the most familiar passages to all even says this "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasing life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

    Doesn't get much more evident than that, even has the word saved and believeth in it.
     
  14. TomVols

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Besides, doesn't this scripture suggest our salvation is based on our works? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    No. Not if you interpret Scripture faithfully. You assume that Phil 2:12 is calling us to "perform" our own salvation. That is not the usage of the term here for "work out." We work out our salvation because it has been produced in us (Cf. Thayer's definition). The concept here is they are able to work at something because they have received something. Somewhat akin would be me buying you a computer (not going to happen) and then telling you to work on your computer. A little study of the context and language would do you some good.
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> When you work something out, it generally means it isn't complete. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're using contemprary linguistics to try to interpret God's Word. Can't do that. Let the words and their Biblical meanings do the talking. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> If their salvation was complete, then they wouldn't need to work out their salvation.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    You're basing all this on flawed logic and a lack of faithful interpretation of Scripture. If they were not saved, Paul would not call them "elect" as he does.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Philip. 2:13 (ESV)
    for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Read the rest of the text. It's sometimes helpful :D How could Paul say what he did in v. 13 if they weren't saved nor was he confident of their being elect?

    [ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  15. Eladar

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    Kellisa,

    To assume that John 3:16 is talking about someone who believed in Jesus at one point in their life will be saved, is making a very big assumption.

    It could mean that those people who die believing that Jesus Christ is Lord will be saved.

    Tom,

    You're using contemprary linguistics to try to interpret God's Word. Can't do that.

    That sounds like something a Catholic would say. ;)

    In any case, you are correct in saying that I am trapped into my modern understanding of the Bible's translation into modern language. If this is the only place where Paul seemed to be saying that our salvation wasn't assured until the race was over, I'd agree with you.
     
  16. Eladar

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    Read the rest of the text. It's sometimes helpful How could Paul say what he did in v. 13 if they weren't saved nor was he confident of their being elect?

    I never said he didn't believe they were apart of the elect, just that their salvation was still a work in progress. Only time will tell if some who he thought were elect were to be disqualified.
     
  17. Chick Daniels

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    If any of you read my post above, what did you think of the analysis of Gerald Hawthorne? I think it deserves pondering. If correct, all of the above clutter about issues of works salvation/eternal security is moot. (Of course if Hawthorne is wrong, I think it is moot anyway-just as TomVols just pointed out.)

    Chick
     
  18. Kellisa

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    Tuor,

    If you choose not to believe in eternal security, that is your decision. It seems sad to me that such an easy concept cannot be understood. Also, it seems that this is a point that you enjoy arguing about with those that do believe in eternal security. I personally am tired of discussing it with someone who continues to take verses out of context to make it mean something they do not. Jesus is more than capeable to save me and he will not let me fall. He is greater than all. He tells us he gives us eternal life that we shall never perish neither shall any man pluck us out of his hand. Words that came from the Savior himself. I trust his words, I know that he is my Savior and he guide and protects me. I don't trust in myself, that gets me nowhere, I trust in Him.
     
  19. tyndale1946

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    "IT IS FINISHED!"... What was finished? All that the Father gave to the Son... None added... None lost! You work out that Savation you have been given freely because you are a debtor to Christ who stood where you could not.

    If Christ says It Is Finished why do some here still want to work out that Salvation eternally speaking or say it is an on going process. I sure that those who agree with me here know that Christ finished their Salvation on the cross and God accepted that sacrifice when he raised him from the dead.
    I work out my Salvation to thank the Lord who died for me!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  20. Kellisa

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tyndale1946:
    If Christ says It Is Finished why do some here still want to work out that Salvation eternally speaking or say it is an on going process. [​IMG]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Loved your answer, great post.
     

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