Pick this person's baptist affiliation

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Gina B, Dec 1, 2003.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    I'm going to give a small list of this person's basic beliefs and a few other things to give you more of an idea of the mindset, and you're going to say which baptist group they'd fit in with the best as the first option, what religious group other than baptist as the second option.

    1. Beliefs in virgin birth, death burial and resurrection of Christ, faith in Jesus, evangelising the world

    2. Reformed, but accepts other viewpoints as valid

    3. Thinks Judge Moore is a wonderful person but that he had no biblical basis to do what he did, perhaps he was even being disobedient to God's commands

    4. A person can possibly be saved then fall away and remove himself from God's salvation

    5. Thinks presbyterians, many methodists, and a lot of Catholics are saved.

    6. And the final thing to throw you off...KJVO

    [​IMG] Would you consider someone who could check off yes to all of the above to be a very untypical baptist Christian, possibly even someone who should leave the baptist denomination? Is there ANY denomination other than baptist this person might fit in with?
    BTW this isn't any person in particular so don't get any ideas. [​IMG]
    Gina
     
  2. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
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    That person is NOT a Baptist as I know it.

    Diane
     
  3. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
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    Me neither.

    Baptist has become a generic term, just as Christian has become a generic term. [​IMG]
     
  4. Ransom

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    If this person actually believes these things, then he is a mess of contradictions. #2 and #4 are irreconcilable.

    Therefore, I suggest the Baha'i faith. [​IMG]
     
  5. Jim1999

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    If a person supposes himself into a hypothetical situation, he best suppose himself out of it. Anyone can call himself a Baptist. For that matter, I question a lot of Baptists and wonder where they get the name baptist from.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. Gina B

    Gina B
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    How are they a contradiction? It doesn't give man any credit for salvation, it simply holds man responsible for turning away from God at some point in time.

    For the rest of you, what in that list disqualifies the person from claiming the Baptist name?
    Gina
     
  7. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    Ransom, you missed where it said he was KJVO. If he will believe that, any illogical conclusion should be expected.
     
  8. Debby in Philly

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    Sounds like "Holiness" denominations that preach about helping people "stay saved."
     
  9. Daniel David

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    Gina, the Reformed faith states that those who are truly the elect will persevere to the end.

    He could believe in the reformed idea of election and then spin in the pagan notion of losing his salvation, I suppose.
     
  10. Gina B

    Gina B
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    David, ok, let's go with that. He isn't a full fledged Calvinist, nor is he a full blown armadillo or whatever they call themselves. [​IMG]
    Let's say he's KJV prefered, not only. Opens the doors a bit more...
    I'm a bit suprised by the strong reactions so far.
    So there's the list. Calminian, kjv prefered, virgin birth, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, believs a person can separate themselves from God's salvation, thinks others besides baptists are saved too, and doesn't believe we are biblically commanded to disobey the government's authority when they give us an order to remove a biblical statue from their property.
    Gina
     
  11. Salty

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    One Baptist group that could fall in this group esp # 4 would be Free Will Baptist.
     
  12. Ransom

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    Gina L asked:

    How are they a contradiction? It doesn't give man any credit for salvation, it simply holds man responsible for turning away from God at some point in time.

    Reformed theology holds to the perseverence of the saints, not the falling away of the saints.

    His theology is contradictory if he believes that salvation is based on the free and sovereign choice of God, but he can through his own effort opt out again. To a Calvinist, saying you can lose your salvation is equivalent to saying God can lose you.
     
  13. Daniel Dunivan

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    This describes many of the General Baptists I know. Though I would qualify that others who have posted above are correct--reformed refers to the core 5 points of Calvinism. General Baptists--and everyone please note that the first Baptists were General Baptists, thus because they are not Calvinists or believe in OSAS does not exclude them from the baptist name--as they are found in the US have a large KJVO group also.

    Stop the suspense! Who are you talking about!

    Grace and Peace, Danny [​IMG]
     
  14. Jailminister

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    Sounds alot like Richard Land.
     
  15. Paul of Eugene

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    I suspect quite a few "baptists" could match all those notions, even with the "contradiction" between accepting reform theology vs believing in the possiblity of losing one's salvation, (just because so many of us are ignorant about the fine points like that, but its interesting you didn't say anything about believing in baptism by immersion only and as a symbol of salvation, not in order to be saved . . .
     
  16. Gina B

    Gina B
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    Paul yes, baptism only by immersion and as a statement of salvation, not a condition.
    Gina
     
  17. Ephesus23

    Ephesus23
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    The part that says "thinks a lot of Catholics are saved" makes me say that person is NOT a Baptist. Catholics rely on the Pope, good works, and many other things in order to be saved- I used to be Catholic, so I know very well what it's like. I was NOT saved and I did NOT know God when I was Catholic, therefore, this person in question is NOT a Baptist IMHO.
     
  18. Ransom

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    I didn't realize that one of the Baptist distinctives was "how you feel about the salvation of individual Catholics."
     
  19. Bible-boy

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    I think the point is that you can be a Catholic and on your own cut through all the church tradition and find salvation in faith in Jesus Christ. Martin Luther did it. The thing I don't know is that if once a Catholic is born again are they able to remain in the Catholic Church (as their relationship with Jesus, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the power of God's Word grows in them)?

    I agree with Ransom and DD that points 2 and 4 are in vast contradiction. Can't say who/what kind of Baptist this person would be. :confused:
     
  20. pinoybaptist

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    No offense, Ephesus 23.

    I guess a lot of people here already know I am an Electionist and Calvinistic but not a Calvinist and here's why.

    I believe that God chose "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."

    These are elect unto eternal salvation. In eternity, the children of God shall be one, with no more walls of doctrines, or practices, or beliefs, or nationalities, or skin color, or accents, dividing them, as these divides them now, in time.

    To say that a person cannot be saved (in the eternal sense) because he or she is a practicing Catholic or Mormon or Moslem, or an avowed atheist, is to say that God saves His people on the basis of not only Christ's atonement but also on the basis of their doctrines and beliefs and practices. Oh, yes, of course, people will say that the saved individual will turn away from false practices and religions, but such turning away is a result of gospel conversion, which depends on preachers getting to them.

    But God does not depend on the ability and willingnes of preachers to go. The Bible says that He does what He will in the armies of heaven and of earth, and if he purposes to save one of His own, he will do so, with or without the preacher, no matter the skin color, or creed, or tongue, or nation.

    Consider what Paul said about national Israel in Romans 11:28-32:

    &lt;QUOTE&gt;
    28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
    [/QUOTE]

    So, I don't know who God's elect are, He knows who His own are. I believe Catholic doctrines and practices are unscriptural, so with Mormons, I do not believe Allah and Jehova are one and the same, but I do believe God's people are scattered all over this earth in all times, all creeds, and all nations, just as there were Christians in Nazi Germany who had to face off with Christians from the US Armed Forces because they were divided by politics.
     

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