Plain, Simple, Un-adulterated Easy to Understand Truth

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by GordonSlocum, Feb 11, 2007.

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  1. GordonSlocum

    GordonSlocum
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    1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2. He was in the beginning with God.
    3. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
    4. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
    5. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
    6. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
    7. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
    8. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
    9. That was the true Light which gives light to every man who comes into the world.
    At or upon the last day when all Calvinist are passed from this life you will face God and this verse will be there as your judge.
     
    #1 GordonSlocum, Feb 11, 2007
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  2. Amy.G

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    Bravo! :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
     
  3. Helen

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    Thank you for taking up the fight against Calvinism, Gordon. I have been here for several years and have gotten really tired of the battle. I applaud your energy! God bless you.
     
  4. Jarthur001

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    :rolleyes:



    and?​
     
    #4 Jarthur001, Feb 12, 2007
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  5. pinoybaptist

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    And then what ?
    The Calvinist will be sent to hell ?
     
    #5 pinoybaptist, Feb 12, 2007
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  6. ~JM~

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    Gill wrote: Which lighteth every man that cometh into the world: the sense is, either that every man that is enlightened in a spiritual manner, is enlightened by him, which is true of Christ, as the Son of God, existing from the beginning; but not in the Socinian sense, as if they were enlightened by his human ministry and example; for the Old Testament saints were not enlightened by his preaching; and many were enlightened by the ministry of John the Baptist; and multitudes afterwards, through the ministry of the apostles; and very few, comparatively, were enlightened under the ministry of Christ; and none we read of, in this sense, enlightened by him, when, and as soon as they came into, the world: or, the meaning is, that he is that light which lighteth all sorts of men; which is true in, a spiritual sense: some connect the phrase, "that cometh into the world", not with "every man", but with the "true light"; and the Arabic version so reads, and joins it to the following verse; but this reading is not so natural and the order of the words requires the common reading; nor is the difficulty removed hereby; for still it is every man that is enlightened: it is best therefore to understand these words of the light of nature, and reason, which Christ, as the word, and Creator and light of men, gives to every man that is born into the world; and which serves to detect the Quakers' notion of the light within, which every man has, and is no other than the light of a natural conscience; and shows how much men, even natural men, are obliged to Christ, and how great a person he is, and how deserving of praise, honour, and glory. The phrase, "every man that cometh into the world", is Jewish, and often to be met with in Rabbinical writings, and signifies all men that are born into the world; the instances are almost innumerable; take one or two: on those words in Job_25:3 on whom doth not his light arise? it is asked (a), who is he that cometh,

    Time for some more "Simple, Un-adulterated Easy to Understand Truth!"

    Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

    Peace,

    j
     
    #6 ~JM~, Feb 12, 2007
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  7. GordonSlocum

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    Flip a coin and see if you are one of the elect. While you are at it flip one for each person in your family. Just maybe they too are PICKED to miss Hell.

    Mom and Dad (one taken one left)

    Two Children ( both damned to hell and don’t have a smidgen of a hope for heaven )

    Hard nosed dad teaches that God is just, fair, kind, no respecter of persons, loves all equally etc. then turns to John and Janice their kids and tells them, “Now kids you know that you may or may not be elect. If you are you go to heave and if you are not you go to hell” Now my dear ones that we love you as parents. We must tell you the truth. You will always be our children but I am not sure you are God’s. I can’t pray for your salvation because I don’t know if you are elect or not. You will know when the time comes. If you are not elect them you deserve Hell anyway so don’t get mad at God or us for bring you into the world. Always remember this is the Calvinist doctrine of Grace.

    You know I have taught you that the other church over there teaches the Grace of God from the Bible we teach the doctrine of Grace by our teacher and other form the TULIP philosophy.

    So dear ones don’t let this great Calvinistic teaching drive crazy. Accept your fate and life a productive life for this is God’s will regardless of your state “lost or elect”. Isn’t God wonderful. He desire you to be saved but only saved maybe both or many not either of you. See how great his desire is?

    Always know that we love you even if you have to go to Hell. Now give me a hug and go to sleep my dear ones.

    Your Calvinist Mom and Dan

    Honey, Yes dear, I am not sure I am Elect. Don’t worry my dear God is in control either way. Just accept your fate. Let me have a hug and kiss.
     
    #7 GordonSlocum, Feb 12, 2007
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  8. tinytim

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    Only if they are predestined for Hell... :laugh: Sorry, I couldn't help my former Calvinistic self.

    Feel free to :tonofbricks: me!

    Something to seriously inject here, is one reason John wrote what he did in the first chapter, is the fact that Gnostics were infecting the church.
    One of the teaching of the gnostics was that each person has to embrace their inward light, and strive to go to the main light.

    John was emphasizing the fact that God CAME to us to give us light.
    We don't go toward Him.

    I really don't think John was thinking of C/A when he wrote that passage.

    I see both C and A tendencies here.
    C: It is God that made the move toward us.
    A: The light was given to every man.

    OK, fight on.
     
  9. GordonSlocum

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    So True, All on the basis of Foreknowledge. Can't get around it, under it, over it. We are elect on the basis of Foreknowledge. Elect in Christ from the foundation of the world, before Adam and Eve sinned God knew that and provided for us and he knew we would be trust in Him and declared in Eternity our Election and appointed us to heaven based upon His Absolute knowledge. God is the only one who has this Absolute Knowledge which we call foreknowledge and Yes I am appointed to heaven from eternity and I believe in the now or the past now.

    Feel free to join the truth at any time. Calvinism is a dead end of despair and fear.
     
    #9 GordonSlocum, Feb 12, 2007
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  10. Pastor Larry

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    So what exactly in that verse do you think Calvinists disagree with?
     
  11. ~JM~

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    James Petigru Boyce [founder of SBC], B.H. Carroll [founder of SBTS], Andrew Fuller and William Carey [founders of modern missions], John L. Dagg [who wrote a Manuel of Theology], Keach, Gill, Gadsby, Spurgeon, Piper, John MacArthur [found of Masters], George Whitefield, Jonathon Edwards, etc. etc....all of these folks were full of "despair and fear?"

    God used these mighty CALVINIST preachers, and without the likes of Andrew Fuller and William Carey, where would we be?

    As for the verse I quoted:
    1/ ordained
    then
    2/ believed

    God's knowledge isn't based upon our actions, God's will is free, ours is not.

    Here's a few more:
    Mark 13:20 God did the choosing
    Ephesians 1:4 It was done before the foundation of the world
    Revelation 13:8 God chose people, not just a plan
    Revelation 17:8 God chose people, not just a plan
    Romans 9:11-13 God's choice not based on anything creaturely as you suggest with your understanding of Acts 13
    Romans 9:16 Not based on man's will or man's exertion
    Romans 10:20 God found by those who did NOT seek him
    1 Corinthians 1:27-29 God chose the foolish, weak, low and despised
    specifically so that no flesh could boast that ANY PART of their salvation was from them.


    :tonofbricks:
     
  12. GordonSlocum

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    It is interesting that you dismiss a "plan" when the "plan" is not Calvinistic. All workings of God is planned, intentional according to His design. I think we both believe that. The difference is not that a plan exist but the "nuts and bolts" of the plan. There in is the difference.

    Our free will is God's will. Our receiving Christ is God's desire / will / free will. No one is forced into heaven as Calvin would have it and many who follow his philosophy.

    Calvinism ties God's hands with fatalism.

    God is free to design his plan and operate it His way. He does not need Calvin to change it or modify it.

    For God so loved the World. The context supports all man kind not the elect.

    Verse 9 is clear.

    Peter nailed the Calvinist philosophy to the wall before it was invented by false teaches of the likes of John Calvin. Election is based upon "foreknowledge". I go with what the Bible teaches not John Calvin.

    All John Calvin is to Calvinist is a Pope. No difference. Calvinist worship Calvin as Catholics do the Pope.

    You see we know what God’s desire is: Not willing that any perish. So to say that God is a respecter of persons and only picks some of the many makes God lie. The God I serve does not lie. The only way to understand Salvation is from the stand point of God’s desire, Man’s free will, and the plan of God whereby all who believe are in Christ from eternity before they commit a single sin and before they exist. On this basis God can and does declare me and you if you are a real born again believer - appointed to heaven before we believe. All who were appointed to heaven believe. That is so true.

    When you Calvinist stop injecting philosophy into the Bible and let the Bible interpret itself then and only then will you see the truth.

    I praise God for your salvation and deliverance. May God bless you abundantly and deliver you from the clutches of Calvinism.
     
  13. Amy.G

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    What happens when the ordained don't believe? Is that possible?
     
    #13 Amy.G, Feb 12, 2007
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  14. skypair

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    Calvinist...

    ...

    would it be a "wasted life" if you sanctified yourself with the word and Spirit and works and fellowship and found out that you weren't "elect?"


    Why don't you go back and make it "real" -- CHOOSE Christ!

    skypair
     
  15. pinoybaptist

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    Is it possible for God to want to create a star and the star not appear ?
     
  16. skypair

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    That's a good question, Amy, because Calvinists don't/can't distinguish between belief that WE must have and faith which is given to us. But suppose there was a difference? Hmm. Suppose God said YOU had to believe -- it is YOUR choice -- and you only found that out "later?"

    skypair
     
  17. GordonSlocum

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    The supposition of knowing as you would have it after the fact is of course a diversion from the knowable truth.

    We are not in darkness:

    (1) God's desire is that all be saved
    (2) Election is on the basis of Foreknowledge
    (3) God's plan declares us Elect or appointed in Christ before the foundation of the world.
    (4) In time and space we still have to believe freely. God knows this before we are born and declares it as settled in Christ before the foundation of the world.

    Note this: Regardless of the side you or I land on. God knows all who are ultimately saved.

    Your side makes a person get saved
    My side calls a person to salvation and leaves the decision up to the individual.

    In God's plan, His absolute knowledge (foreknowledge, foresight, pre-science) knows all that will respond to his revelation thereby declaring them appointed and Elect. These will believe not because they are picked but because as Peter stated on the bases of God's Foreknowledge.

    A Call to Prayer
    1. First of all, then, I urge that entreaties {and} prayers, petitions {and} thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
    2. for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
    3. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
    4. who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
    5. For there is one God, {and} one mediator also between God and men, {the} man Christ Jesus,
    6. who gave Himself as a ransom for all
    , the testimony {given} at the proper time.


    God is not a Calvinist, Jesus is not a Calvinist , He is not a Catholic either.

    A God who desires all men to be saved is not one that picks a few from the many and then tells the ones he did not pick, "Yo, you over there, yah, you dude, you ain’t picked but I desire you to be saved. Sorry bro my desire is real but I ain’t going to pick you just that other Joe with you." By the way I am a loving God I just thought you needed to know that." I had it put in the Bible that I love all man kind but I really only pick a few here and there. You know what??? I just lost my holiness. I can't lie. You know what on second thought you ain’t picked. Ifin you want to be saved you gota believe. OK God I believe. What about you Joe. No, I might have to give up what I am doing, don’t want to do that, I'll just take my chanches.
     
    #17 GordonSlocum, Feb 12, 2007
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  18. Amy.G

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    That makes no sense.
     
  19. MB

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    Hi JM;
    Actually in the Greek it's the other way around. It originally said ("as many as believed were ordained to eternal life").According to Greens interlinear. It must be right because it's the only way it makes any sense. You see we can't be appointed to eternal life until we believe.
    MB
     
    #19 MB, Feb 12, 2007
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  20. pinoybaptist

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    Why not ? Why doesn't the question make sense ?
     
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