Plausible reason for "the elect"

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Yelsew, Jan 24, 2003.

  1. Yelsew

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    Related topic to Calvinism

    I'm seeking plausible reason or reasons for God to have "elected" some of his created men before the foundation of the world, while leaving all other men to fend for themselves.

    What is the purpose of "the elect"

    What function do 'the elect' serve?

    What if an 'elect' is aborted? Afterall women do have rights ya know!
     
  2. Bible-belted

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    Just ask yourself: what possible purpose could a saved person have in God's economy? There's your answer.

    BTW, God did jnot leave the rest of the world to fend for itself. He sent Jesus.
     
  3. npetreley

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    That's a leading question, since it assumes God just leaves other men to fend for themselves, as if you already know God's motives in the latter case.

    Here's a more objective way to ask this question:

    I'm seeking plausible reason or reasons for God to have "elected" some of his created men for salvation before the foundation of the world, but others perish.
     
  4. Yelsew

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    That's OK npetreley, I like the way I asked the questions, and your answer does not answer the questions.

    Latreia said,
    Are you saying that the elect are already saved from the foundation of the world? If so, why would they need to live this temporal physical life? What evidence do you provide that supports your statement that they are already saved? Why would God not simply save every one, if it is good for God's economy?

    So, Jesus is not for the elect, but for the non-elect only?
     
  5. npetreley

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    I did not answer because IMO it is pure speculation. If you want me to, I'll be glad to speculate for you, but IMO it is more interesting to discuss what scripture says, not what we postulate about why God does this or that if He has not revealed His motives.
     
  6. Yelsew

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    Has he revealed his motive regarding the elect?

    No? Then why rely so heavily on it?
     
  7. npetreley

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    Huh? I don't rely on His motive. I believe what scripture says about what He does. There are times when God chooses to reveal WHY He does something, and that's wonderful and fascinating. When God doesn't reveal why He does something, I simply trust He has a good reason.

    So I don't get your question. I don't rely on His motive at all.
     
  8. Skandelon

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    Eph 1 which speaks of our being chosen from the foundation of the world tells us why. The phrase "to the praise of His Glory" is seen numerous times throughout the entire passage. Therefore, it seems that God's "motive" is for his glory to be praised. I know salvation in my experience lead to the praise His glory. How about the rest of you, did the salvation of your souls lead you to praise His glory? Of course it did.

    I know those of you who don't hold to the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace won't agree with this, but as a man who has held to both systems of belief in my life, I must testify that the humility, brokenness, and overwhellming since of gratitude for God's grace was hightened more than I could have ever imagined once I came to understand these great truths of scripture.

    I'm not trying to offend anyone here, this was my experience, I'm sure you feel a sense of gratitude as well, but I'm just saying that the measure of God's grace seemed so much greater in my life after I learn these truths. Can anyone else testify to that hightened sense of God's grace once you believed these truths called "Calvinism"?

    [ January 24, 2003, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Samuel ]
     
  9. Primitive Baptist

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    According to Ephesians 1:5, the purpose of election and predestination is the good pleasure of God's will. That's enough answer for me.
     
  10. Bible-belted

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    "Are you saying that the elect are already saved from the foundation of the world?"

    I didn't say that.

    "If so, why would they need to live this temporal physical life?"

    If God foreknows, then why the need?

    "What evidence do you provide that supports your statement that they are already saved?"

    This is getting you of track, so you'll pardon me if I don't distract you from your enquiry.

    "Why would God not simply save every one, if it is good for God's economy?"

    That is a question that may equally be put to an arminian, indeed, anyone of any theological stripe save a universalist.

    "So, Jesus is not for the elect, but for the non-elect only? "

    Never said that either. Boy you pull a lot I didn;t say out of what I said, but you never deal with what I did say.
     
  11. tyndale1946

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    Election and predestination are biblical truths... and before you think election is according as God looked down through the annals of time seeing the end from the beginning and elected you because you accepted Jesus is unbiblical. If you check scripture it says that the children were not born nor have done any good or evil!... So the purpose of God according to election might stand!... Not of him that willeth... You can't will your Salvation... In fact you have no desire for things of God until God gives you that desire. Nor of him that runneth... You can't by being a good boy earn it in any way... But of God that sheweth mercy!

    Election is all of God and not some of man and some of God?... What kind of doctrine is that?... Then again my Salvation is based on what Jesus Christ did for me on the cross!... Not what we did together. Some brethren do not understand the concept of election... It is because of him and him alone... I is not in the equation!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  12. npetreley

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    I think his question had more to do with why God does not elect everyone. Regardless, I think your answer and PB's answer pretty much pegs it.
     
  13. Yelsew

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    Latreia,
    That is the implication in the declaration "the elect". Meaning that they are different than all others, and that they are treated by God differently than the rest of God's creation.

    "I don't know" is a more accurate answer.

    "I know of none" is a more accurate answer.

     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    That we should be to the priase of the glory of his grace ... at least that's what Scripture says. I need no other plausible reason.
     
  15. Bible-belted

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    Yelsew,

    You are once again attempting to focus on what I did not say, and ignring what I did say. YOu resist the obvious fact that you labour under a double standard, and you ignore the plain reading of Scripture presented by others.

    What then are we to make of the sincerity of your inquiry?
     
  16. Yelsew

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    Latreia,
    I do not expect you to make anything of it, for you have demonstrated that you have little interest in so doing.
     
  17. Bible-belted

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    Of course I do. Indeed I was the first to do so. However you are not interacting with that, nor are you interacting with what others say.
     
  18. Brutus

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    Look at Rom.8:28,here Paul says that God calls people to Himself but there is something behind that call,namely,God's purpose,guiding whom and how He calls.We are called "according to His purpose."So God's purpose has to do with guiding His saving work,in this case His calling.Look at 2Tim.1:9,here again Paul connects God's calling His people to His purpose."He saved us and called us with a holy calling,not according to our works,but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.Here we see 4 things:First,God's purpose is eternal"from all eternity",he says.It doesn't originate or respond to anything.It is eternal.Second,God's purpose is related to Christ from all eternity.Christ is not an afterthought.God's purpose was in Him and through Him from all eternity.Third,God's purpose is linked with grace."according to His own purpose and grace."It is a gracious purpose.It's a purpose to exercise grace.Fourth,the purpose of God rules out works as the basis of His saving call:"He saved us and called us with a holy calling,not according to our works,but according to its own purpose."His own purpose is the basis of His call,not our works.Look at Eph.1:11,"We have obtained an inheritance,having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will."Notice two things.First,not just our calling but also our predestination is"according to His purpose."So God's purpose governs His predestination.Second,Paul says that it is a free and sovereign purpose,not governed by anything outside of God.He says,"according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will."What's the point of saying that this Purposer"works all things after the counsel of His will"?The point is that He governs all things,and that He does not base His governance ultimately on anything in man or in nature,but only on Himself."He works all things after the counsel of His will."We are not finally decisive in turning the will of God;God alone is decisive.
     
  19. Ray Berrian

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    Within the sovereign will of the Lord He watches human beings with this powerful entity called the free will. The sins of the world were taken away because He was and is the Savior of the world. But, in order to become 'elect' the human person must yield his will with the will of God. After hearing the message of salvation, he or she must take that leap of saving faith in order to receive the forgiveness of Almighty God.

    God looks for human beings who can love and appreciate what Jesus did on the Cross for them. When He sees this, those souls become saved and are added to His elect. A mere manipulation of human beings would only show His mighty power, but with totally detract from the lack of the free agency of human beings. All human beings then become a dangling puppet with no mind, direction, love toward God or basic reason for living on this earth.

    Free will portrays what a human being can do when he is allowed by God to give a free expression of his or her love for what Christ has done toward them. 'We love Him because He first loved us.'
     

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