Please Biblically Show Why The 5 Points Of Arminianism Are Correct?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Oct 20, 2011.

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  1. JesusFan

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    since there are so many here that say that the DoG are all biblically wrong, could they please prove the Arminianism poits are valid and true?
     
  2. mandym

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    Are there "so many" Arminains on this board. I have yet to see any.
     
  3. Van

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    The words in italics are partial quotes and paraphrases from “Arminian Articles of Remonstrance”

    Jacob (James) Arminius taught that after the fall, mankind was totally depraved, unable by nature to do anything really good. But rather than solve this issue by the unconditional pre-selection of individuals by God and then enabling them to trust in God via irresistible grace, Arminius solved the apparent dilemma of individual election before a person comes to faith by asserting God’s foresight into the nature of some persons, and thus according to Arminius God elected those of foreseen faith to salvation before the world began. To get around spiritual inability, God granted grace to all men so they could respond (accept or reject) the gospel. Those that accept are the very same ones that God foresaw would accept, and therefore Arminius works man’s freewill into the equation. In sum, this view is closer to what the bible actually teaches than Calvinism.

    Rather than irresistible grace, we have resistible grace; rather than unconditional pre-selection election of foreseen individuals, we have conditional pre-selection election of foreseen individuals foreseen who come to faith by their own free will.

    Arminian teachings were summarized as follows:

    1. God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. This is election by foreseen faith. (The underlying biblical truth that makes this view false is God chooses those whose faith He credits as righteousness during their lifetime, not before creation.)

    2. Christ died for all men (not just for the supposed pre-selected elect individuals), but no one except the believer has remission of sin. (True.)

    3. Man cannot do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. (Scripture says the unsaved can give good gifts to their kids, so discernment and choice is taught as a capability of the unsaved, limited as it is in that nothing the unsaved can do will result in earning salvation. If the point is in support of mystic mind manipulation (resistible grace) being necessary in order to overcome Total Spiritual Inability to enable us to place our faith in Christ, it is a false premise. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that the unregenerate can believe in God and seek God yet be turned away by false teachings.)

    4. All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God but his grace is not irresistible. (If we do something good, it was enabled by God’s grace, if something sinful, it is all on us, God’s grace did not cause it. True)

    5. Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it may be possible for a believer to fall from grace. ( Those incorporated into Christ are incorporated by God, after He credits our faith as righteousness. Scripture plainly says that it is not possible to become unsaved, but is possible to believe you are saved and then fall away from your “faith.” For people will say, “Lord, Lord” but Christ will say, “I never knew you” (Matthew 7:22-23.) Note “never”, not “I knew you once but no more.” 1 John 2:19 says that those who went out from us were not of us, again teaching those who fall away were never born again.)

    In summary, Arminius formulated his doctrine to address his understanding of the flawed doctrine associated with John Calvin. He is on target in that he recognized something was amiss, but by framing his response based on acceptance of some of the underlying false premises of Calvin, his solution, like fruit from a corrupt tree, is unpalatable.

    The biblical position is summarized as follows:

    1. God chose the Word before creation to be the Lamb of God, and therefore anyone spiritually placed into Christ shares in His election before the foundation of the world. God’s plan for salvation was thus formulated before creation, and therefore anyone chosen and spiritually placed in Christ is chosen according to God’s foreknowledge of His salvation program, (1 Peter 1:2). Hence, He chose us [corporately] in Him before the foundation of the world, (Ephesians 1:4).

    2. Christ died for all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6), becoming the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world (1 John 2:2), but only those who God credits their faith in Christ as righteousness (Romans 4:5) are then spiritually placed in Christ by God (1 Corinthians 1:30), and receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice (Romans 5:10-11). Thus we are saved by grace through faith and not by the will or actions of men. Ephesians 2:8-9.

    3. Our individual election occurs when God chooses us to be a member of His family, after we are alive and have lived without mercy, 1 Peter 2:9-10. He chooses those who are rich in faith and love God (James 2:5), who believe in Christ (John 3:16). We are chosen by God placing us into Christ (the sanctification by the Spirit) 2 Thessalonians 2:13, after He credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5. Our faith in Christ provides our access to God’s saving grace, Romans 5:2.
     
    #3 Van, Oct 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2011
  4. matt wade

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    We are hear again. Please tell us who the Arminians are on this board. You have been asked repeatedly in the past and have yet to identify them.

    What you fail to realize is that there are more than two choices. One does not have to be DoG or Arminian. Both are wrong.
     
  5. Rippon

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    Let's face reality. Most members of the BB lean in an Arminian direction. Call it Arminianistic if you wish. There is not much leeway between the two widely divergent systems. Amyraldianism is a non-starter.
     
  6. seekingthetruth

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    Thank you Matt

    Matt, I was just about to write the same thing, but you covered it well.

    I am neither Calvinist nor Arminian. I would like to think my beliefs are biblical, and based on the Bible.

    Calvinists preach more about John Calvin than they do Jesus Christ. John Calvin wont get them into heaven.

    John
     
  7. seekingthetruth

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    You using broad strokes there aren't you?

    I would never "lean" towards a doctrine that taught conditional salvation.

    And, I would never "lean" towards a doctrine that proclaims their followers to be the "elect", and deny the oppurtunity for salvation to the rest of us.

    John
     
  8. Rippon

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    So would any genuine Christ --whether Arminian or Calvinist.

    We don't "preach more about Calvin" as you put it. We preach Christ. We defend Calvin from scurrilous reports.

    No one here believes any of the nonsense you attribute to Calvinists.

    But let me give a quote from Charles Spurgeon:

    The old truth that Calvin preached,that Augustine preached,that Paul preached,is the truth that I must preach to-day,or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth. I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine.
     
  9. mandym

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    I don't :wavey:
     
  10. seekingthetruth

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    "No one here believes any of the nonsense you attribute to Calvinists."

    Do you speak for everyone here?

    Yes, I believe the teachings of John Calvin to be nonsense, and I am not afraid or ashamed to "attribute" that nonsense to the people who spew it.

    John
     
  11. Rippon

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    I speak for the Calvinists and honest non-Cals here. When you say nonsensical things such as we think John Calvin will get us into heaven and such stuff as that.


    You probably have read next to nothing of the writings of the man of Geneva. So you are making no sense. Arminius himself valued the writings of Calvin very highly.
     
  12. seekingthetruth

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    One course I took in Bible College was devoted soley to the teachings of John Calvin. It was neither a pro-calvinist course nor an anti-calvinist course. Simply a study of his teachings.

    I found the course to have historical value but very little scriptural value.

    John
     
  13. Rippon

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    Arminians believe in conditional election --not conditional salvation.

    You are confused. Calvinists do not believe only Calvinists are the elect of God. I have had to repeat this a plethora of times.

    Even diehard Arminians believe that ultimately only the elect will be saved, not all of humanity.

    We believe that the Gospel should be proclaimed to everyone.we should have a burden for souls. But,not everyone has an equal opportunity or chance. The Lord has hidden saving truths to many through the ages.
     
  14. seekingthetruth

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    BTW, before I go to bed, just let me say this.

    Benny Hinn has written some very inspirational books, but he is still a false teacher. John Calvin had many interesting writings but he too was a false teacher. Being a good writer doesn't give one the right to twist the gospel.

    John
     
  15. seekingthetruth

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    "Arminians believe in conditional election --not conditional salvation"

    They believe that a saved person can lose their salvation.....that makes it conditional.

    John
     
  16. seekingthetruth

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    " But,not everyone has an equal opportunity or chance. "

    I really have to go to bed, but let me comment on this.

    Your statement here is why I am so against Calvinism. The Bible makes it clear that God is "not a respecter of persons".

    To say that we are special and that God gives us eternal life while denying even the chance to others is the epitome of arrogance and pride.

    We are saved by Grace and not because we are special or "elect". We become the elect by accepting the Grace offered, but I refuse to believe that God denies even the chance or oppurtunity of salvation to all that will accept it. Salvation is a gift, not a right by birth or predestination.

    John
     
  17. David Lamb

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    Well, my beliefs are what would be called "calvinistic", and I have never ever (not even once) preached about John Calvin. (I don't even remember mentioning his name in any sermon, let alone "preached about" him!) I have never heard anyone preaching about John Calvin. Perhaps I lead a sheltered life! :laugh:

    Nor do I expect Calvin to "get me into heaven". Only my glorious Saviour can do that, and it is Him I try to preach.

    The things I believe, and therefore preach, would for the most part agree with what John Calvin believed and preached (though as a baptist I don't agree with him on baptism, or on the relationship between church and state).
     
  18. Rippon

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    You apparently were just going through the motions. No true Christian of whatever theological persuasion would disagree with the bulk of his work if they actually took the time to read his words. PlainoldBill who hasn't posted here in a while is not a Calvinist --yet he took the time to go through The Institutes and found he agreed a lot more of the time than objected --though he is not a Calvinist.

    "Very little scriptural value." That is absolute bunk for you to say. Calvin sticks closer to the Bible than just about anyone else and rarely just spouts his opinion. He was an exceptional exegete.The grand exception is on the subject of baptism where he goes off-course and can't really back himself up with the Bible.
     
  19. Rippon

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    You are too much. There is absolutely no equivalency between Hinn and Calvin whatsoever. Shame on you.

    I'm not sure that Hinn is that good of a writer.

    Charging Calvin with twisting the Gospel is foolish. It just demonstrates that you have nary a clue.
     
  20. Rippon

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    God created everyone. He is not influenced by externals as are fallible humans Christians though they may be. The respector of persons line is not directed to God.

    Let me ask you the following: Do you believe everyone is the elect of God? Has everyone been chosen of God in your view? Just what does the term elect mean to you?

    Can you show me anywhere in the Word of God just where it states or implies that someone "becomes" elect?

    And who will "accept"? That's right! Only the elect.
     
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