Pledging Allegiance

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Palatka51, Feb 1, 2011.

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What Can You Pledge Your Allegiance To?

  1. Your Religious Belief

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  2. The Flag

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  3. Your State

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  4. These United States of America

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  5. The Constitution of the United States of America

    8 vote(s)
    53.3%
  6. None of the Above

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Palatka51

    Palatka51
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    If you had a choice, What would you pledge your allegiance to? Please explain why you would or would not.
     
  2. billwald

    billwald
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    Oaths of allegiance have been a social custom for 10,000 years. Maybe 10 million years.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

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    So is idolatry.
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay - no oaths needed
     
  5. NiteShift

    NiteShift
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    "When you have eaten and are satisfied, praise the Lord your God for the good land he has given you." - Deut.8:10
     
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I have never accepted that the US or any other nation can lay the same claim to their land as God giving Israel their land.

    Even if I concede that point does gratefulness and praising God require saying a man-made pledge?
     
  7. NiteShift

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    Why not? Surely you recognize that all nations rise and fall by God's will. If the Old Testament is only about the Jews then we have to throw out Psalms, Job, the prophets and practically everything else.

    I take it then that you are opposed to marriage vows because it involves more than saying "yes". All of that business about "In the presence of God, our family and friends, I offer you my solemn vow to..." is right out?
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Of course I acknowledge that God causes nations to rise and fall.

    The statement in Deuteronomy was very specific to the Jews and their promised land.

    We get into big trouble when we try to apply all of the promises of God to His chosen people to America or any other nation.

    Should Christians in Nazi Germany have sworn an oath to their nation? Should the few believers in Ireland have sworn an oath of allegiance when this was officially a Catholic nation?

    We have a responsibility to be law abiding citizens who submit to our leaders and pray for them. I see no need to swear to a man made oath. Especially one, as in the case of the US, written by a socialist.


    All I said was 'I do.' Since thing I have striven to make my 'yes' 'yes.'
     
    #8 NaasPreacher (C4K), Feb 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2011
  9. NiteShift

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    God did not only give good things to the Jews, but to many other peoples. It seems to me that "When you have eaten and are satisfied, praise the Lord your God for the good land he has given you" is pretty universal for people who have experienced God's blessings and wish to please him.

    But when you said 'I do' you were assenting to some type of vows.
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I don't think we are going to agree. I don't ask anyone to not say any pledge - I just cannot take it myself.

    I will serve her and pray for her and pay my taxes and trained to defend her (I broke my neck so could not serve but most of my family have and I am proud of them.)

    Taking an oath should be no litmus test of loyalty, in my opinion.
     
  11. David Lamb

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    I would not pledge allegiance to any flag, though I might to what that flag represented.

    I don't live in a state, so I could not pledge allegiance to one.

    Nor do I live in "these United States of America", so sorry, folks, I do not pledge my allegiance to them.

    Same for the US constitution.

    My religious belief? I think I'd rather pledge allegiance to my Saviour.

    Thanks, though, to Palatka51 for starting the OP, "If you had the choice".
     
  12. David Lamb

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    I agree, C4K.
     
  13. Palatka51

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    My faith in Christ is something that goes without saying. As long as there is breath in me I will confess His Holy Name. I could and have, pledged allegiance to the flag, have not made an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States (would do so in a heart beat) but pledging to the US or even to a single State would take some thought these days. If the US officially annuls the Constitution, it would cease to be United. There would be many like me that would cling to the Constitution and watch what was a great nation die.
     
  14. Arbo

    Arbo
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    How do you make the comparison with idolatry?
     
  15. Pastor Andy

    Pastor Andy
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    “Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul.” (1 Peter 2:11)

    “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.” (John 15:18-19)

    Jesus prayed for his disciples: “I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.” (John 17:14-16)

    “Jesus said, ‘My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.’” (John 18:36)

    “Their mind is on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.” (Phil 3:20-21)

    “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If you love the world, love for the Father is not in you. For everything in the world - the cravings of sinful people, the lust of their eyes and their boasting about what they have and do - comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.” (1 John 2:15-17)(collectively, patriotism)

    “All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country — a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.” (Heb 11:13-16)

    “For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.” (Heb 13:14)

    Think of yourself as a missionary in a foreign land. And if you reflect on the fact that your existence will continue beyond trillions of millennia, the importance of a transitory kingdom of the world diminishes significantly.

    “But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” (1 Peter 2:9)

    The “one nation under God” is the kingdom of God, and it is In God We Trust, not the weapons of the world (2 Cor 10:3-4).



    **************************************

    Should Christians Pledge Allegiance to the Flag?
    In order to answer this question, I would like to first quote the American pledge of allegiance and then give a brief history before answering the question from a biblical standpoint

    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

    Before we go to the Scriptures on this subject, some facts about the pledge of allegiance should be noted. First of all, the pledge was not handed down by the framers of the constitution or anyone who was involved in the independence movement. The pledge was not composed until 1892 and it was created in order to sell flags to public schools by socialist author and Baptist minister Francis Bellamy on behalf of the magazine Youth’s Companion.

    The original form of the pledge was as follows:

    I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all

    Notice that two modern day elements are missing. (1) the phrase “of the United States of America” are missing as well as (2) the phrase “under God.” The first phrase was added to the modern day pledge in 1924 by the National Flag Conference so that immigrants would know to which flag they were pledging allegiance. The next phrase, “under God” was not added until 1954 when Rev. Docherty of the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church preached a sermon which convinced President Dwight Eisenhower to add it.

    I was honestly shocked when I found out about this evolution of the pledge. I was always led to the impression that the pledge was part of the constitution or perhaps it was agreed upon immediately following the Declaration of Independence. The way various “Christian” radio programs that banter about the slogan, “take America back for God” always seem to imply (at least) that the pledge was established by the framers and that to remove “under God” was tantamount to betrayal. Now that we have a bit of the history under our belts, let’s evaluate the act of pledging allegiance to America (or any nation) in light of the Scriptures. First we must define the words, “pledge” and, “allegiance.”

    pledge: To offer or guarantee by a solemn binding promise: pledge loyalty to a nation.

    allegiance: [1] the loyalty of a citizen to his or her government or of a subject to his or her sovereign. [2] loyalty or devotion to some person, group, cause, or the like.

    Now let’s take a look at the words of Jesus on this subject:

    Mat 5.33-37 “Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord.’ But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes’ {or} ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil.”

    This is taken from the famous first section of the Sermon on the Mount in which Jesus says “you have heard…” and then quotes from the Hebrew Scriptures, from the Law of Moses, and then says “but I say unto you….” Jesus in this short paragraph overturns the common practice found throughout biblical times of making vows. He says specifically make no oath at all. This is completely unambiguous. This is a direct command, not a suggestion. If we follow Jesus then we do not make oaths. He then goes on to enumerate all the different types of oaths that should not be made (by the throne of God, by earth, etc.). Then he says, let your yes be yes or no, no. Anything beyond these is of evil. James the Apostle and brother of our Lord reiterates this Christian instruction:

    James 5.12
    But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath; but your yes is to be yes, and your no, no, so that you may not fall under judgment.

    It is interesting to note that he prefaces this simple command by saying “but above all…do not swear.” To pledge is to swear which is also the same as making an oath. Allegiance is to give loyalty to a government. Thus to pledge allegiance is to make an oath of loyalty to a government. This is strictly forbidden by Scripture. Furthermore, there is only one government we can give allegiance to–the kingdom of God. The coming theocratic kingdom will be on earth and we are citizens of it now.






    *************
    These are two articles found on the internet, that I personally like and agree with. I do not claim to have written these myself, or have done the work myself, I just found these on the internet.
     
  16. blackbird

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    Pledging won't make me any more a citizen than not pledging won't make me any less a citizen!!

    I've seen folks pledge who are some of the sorryest excuses for citizens---and I've seen foks who wouldn't know the first word of the pledge---yet would stand up and die and take a bullet for his country as fast as I would!!
     
  17. freeatlast

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    No pledges here. :wavey:
     

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