POLICE STATE! COMING OR ALREADY HERE?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Nov 11, 2005.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    By: Tom Rose


    A concerned reader who has been attentively observing the "signs of the times" makes a thoughtful comment and poses some pertinent questions:

    It appears that our police forces in America are changing and that we are developing into a Police State/Surveillance Society. What is the traditional model for police forces in America? Are they in the process of being militarized? If so, for what reason? How can we reconstruct the American concept of police?

    The answer is yes. The orientation and underlying concept of police enforcement in America have, indeed, been changing, but changing so quietly as to be hardly noticeable except by a few careful observers. The traditional orientation of police enforcement has been local rather than national. It was the sheriff, the highest police official in the county, and his deputies who were unquestioningly in control of maintaining peace and apprehending law breakers.

    Incorporated cities and municipalities have the same local orientation, but the titles change to chief of police and policemen on the beat. The general concept used to be that law enforcement was applied by the sheriff’s deputy or policeman on the beat right where problems occurred. This historic view has changed because of political pressures and monetary influences from the national level of government. But even now the sheriff, as the highest-ranking police officer in the county, still has authority to tell federal agencies and their SWAT teams (FBI, BATF, DEA, IRS, and federal marshals) how they must conduct themselves in his county. Sadly, very few sheriffs have the intestinal fortitude to buck the evolving national-statist system because doing so might threaten their careers or their standing with federal agencies on whom they have become financially dependent.

    Police State Defined

    Before we discuss the development of the Police State in America, it is needful to define the term. Police states are often initiated by a violent putsch: Lenin’s overthrow of the Russian government in 1917, Mussolini’s growing use of violence which led to his becoming Prime Minister of Italy in 1922, and Hitler’s Reichstag fire and appointment as Prime Minister of Germany in 1933. Each of these emerging police states focused on alleged internal and external enemies to solidify support among domestic followers. Terror, intimidation, and propaganda were freely used. Citizens were disarmed as quickly as possible to make them easier to control.

    A Police State is characterized by centralized control over every aspect of society: political, economic, social, cultural, and religious. This can be done through state ownership of the means of production (socialism: France, Britain); or by being tied politically with "communist rule of the proletariat" (Lenin’s and Stalin’s USSR, Castro’s Cuba); or it can be done through a more sophisticated form of statist control by which ownership of the means of production is left in the hands of private entities (fascism: Mussolini’s Italy; Hitler’s NAZI Germany; and, sadly, our modern USA, which has over 85 government-control agencies: the ICC, FTC, FCC, FDA, EPA, IRS, DEA, FDIC, BATF, FEMA, IRS, Homeland Security, etc, etc).

    The fascistic form of government control that developed in America got its big push by Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was enamored with Italian fascism. During the 20th century, regulation by federal agencies grew rapidly as each generation of American citizens was conditioned – through tax-supported education, textbook revisions, and government/news media propaganda – to embrace the freedom-destroying concept of "government regulation to protect the people." This was able to come about because each new generation had less understanding of the Constitution. Our founding fathers would be aghast at the centralized government control (fascism) which now exists in America. They thought in terms of the careful division of power to keep government from being centralized and unlimited. Only a very few limited powers were granted to the federal government by the states, and these were carefully delegated and enumerated.

    Early Police States relied heavily on secret police squads (paid thugs) to intimidate citizens into submission (the Soviet Union had its KGB; NAZI Germany had its brown-shirt Gestapo; and fascist Italy had its black-shirt thugs called Facis Di Combattimento). Those who opposed the growing Police State never knew when the door of their home might come crashing down in the dark of night to be beaten, killed, or forcibly moved to a concentration camp.

    In recent years in America, black-masked government SWAT teams ( also paid thugs) have increasingly appeared on the scene (BATF, FBI, DEA, federal marshals, and joint-task forces). Today, only the unaware feel safe.

    Some very keen observers and excellent students of history regard the so-called "terrorist attack" of 9/11, and Hurricane Katrina with its disturbing aftermath, as likely "putsches" meant to generate chaos for justifying the imposition of Martial Law, the disarming of Americans, and the birth of a full-blown Police State in America.

    A frightening thought? Certainly! But take heed to a timely warning: As I carefully watch the outworking of both 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina, I see too many signs that Americans are being psychologically conditioned to accept a Police State! The growing use of masked government SWAT teams is an early warning signal of the erection of a Police State designed to rule over a frightened and compliant citizenry who have been conditioned to value the illusory promise of "security from terrorism" more than liberty and individual self-responsibility. The irony is that the so-called "terrorists" against whom we are to be protected are more likely to be found within our own government than in foreign countries!

    The Rest Of This Long Article Can Be Read By Clicking Here Or not, that's all up to you. [​IMG]
     
  2. KenH

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    I have never had the article author's view toward the police nor do I do so today.
     
  3. billwald

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    Compare Japan and China. Japan has always been a police state and the people traditionally trust the govt. China has traditionally been a police state and the people mistrust the govt.

    Americans now prefer a form of psychological security over a psychological freedom. Both are mental states not necessarially reflected in reality. Many intelligent people have become "free" in the prison camps.
     
  4. poncho

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    Japan started out as a fuedalist soceity so it could be that they were more conditioned to trust the govt.

    China I don't know much about.

    America is turning into a fuedalist soceity and I reckon I'm not all that conditioned to except it yet.
     
  5. Gina B

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    This person totally lost their credibility right in the beginning of the article.
    He asks a series of questions, and says the answer is "yes".
    The answer to how things are changing is "yes"?
    The answer to how to reconstruct the police system is "yes"?
    The traditional model for police forces is "yes"?
    The only question that can be answered with a yes or no is if police forces are being militarized. We can assume that he says yes, but then he doesn't explain it, at least not after the question or after what may be the reply to the question.

    Whether or not this person has any valid ideas is totally lost in his inability to communicate. He lost both his reader and his credibility in a few short sentences.
    I wouldn't take anything he said seriously. If he doesn't care enough about the issue to spend an hour revising his words so that they make sense, I seriously doubt his research should be trusted.
     
  6. poncho

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    Gina! Welcome back. [​IMG]
     
  7. emeraldctyangel

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    There is a movie out just for you that believe this kind of ranting. Chicken Little, in theaters near you.

    Someone needs to study the theory of chaos before they go spouting off about it. Chaos, like life, happens. You can pick all the fights you want, but if people largely ignore you or laugh at you, you just look mad and silly.

    We had a police state, or martial law, in Dec 99 during the World Trade Organization summit. There were groups of people paid to come into town and cause havoc. Guess what? This day Seattle still stands, and the WTO is still trucking. Didnt work. Know why? Because people like me, who are all about preserving your free speech and right to peaceful assembly, upon being locked in her home for five days and watching her dumpster be set on fire and the homeless people harrassed by protesters, pretty much stop caring what your message or agenda might be at that point.

    On another note I find it interesting to know that having completed building clearing, hostage recovery, riot control, and weapons training, that I too, now get to call myself a PAID THUG. YEAH! This is a first for me. LOL
     
  8. poncho

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    emeraldctyangel! Welcome back. [​IMG]
     
  9. poncho

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    Who paid the people to cause havoc emeraldctyangel?

    Would you confiscate guns from law abiding citizens if ordered to do so? Would you shoot at American citizens if ordered to do so?

    The WTO is still trucking but their partners in the FTAA are having a hard time convincing people all over the world to give up what national soveriegnty wasn't usurped by the WTO over to them. [​IMG]

    But then I never was to awful fond of communism.

    [ November 12, 2005, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: poncho ]
     
  10. church mouse guy

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    I guess the old hippies in the 1960s used to worry about a police state all the time. That is where I first heard about the threat. As long as you are in charge, Poncho, I guess that any police state would be okay--ha! ha! Personally, I worry more about a state of chaos brought about by multiculturalism but then being lower middle class insulates one from a lot of anxieties. However, Protestantism teaches that history will end in catastrophe as the anti-Christ will come to power and I hope that I am high on his list.
     
  11. poncho

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    I was just a young hippie (yippie) in the 1960's that's when I first heard of the police state too. As I remember it the police state then didn't include multinational troops and mercenaries and the military didn't practice confiscating guns from citizens and putting them in containment areas while training foreign troops to do the same like they've been doing all throughout the 1990's. (Operation Urban Warrior)

    Order out of chaos is the globalists creedo, do you really think the borders are left unprotected just for votes and cheap labor?

    Nope the elite want a race war right here in the good ole USofA to cause chaos so they then can step in as the heros take away more freedoms and expand their police state powers even more.

    [ November 12, 2005, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: poncho ]
     
  12. emeraldctyangel

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    I didnt see one weapon ripped from the hands of a 'law abiding citizen' during the WTO riots. However, had there been any, anyone with any sense of civility would have certainly expected police to remove that person and their weapons from the fray.

    I dont know who paid these people, but they had no ties with the protestors who were permitted to march. The marches were conducted by large churchs in the Northwest area who were opposed to China receiving any kind of nod within the WTO. And when they had their rally, there were no guns, they said their speeches, and their ideas made sense. When they made thier walk through town, they were fine, traffic was a bit bugged, but oh well. Then they converged with a crowd of seemingly angry people, which roughly outnumbered the permitted group by half. Many of the protestors were hurt in the fray and property was damaged. Cars and dumpsters set on fire, the air was rank with smoke and tear gas, and people were just generally fighting with one another OR tearing something up.

    Would I confiscate guns? Yes. Guns in the above described situation would have caused the situation to go from melee to carnage because some people will shoot at the least provocation.

    Would I shoot at American citizens? First of all, how would I know that to start with...and second, only if they were in the deadly force triangle - intent on hurting someone else or me. That is how the law works.

    I think you mistakenly believe all the hollywood robocop fodder youve been fed over the years if you think cops and military are just there to carry out the whims of a few.

    I never really cared for WTO to start with, I have no idea if it is steeped in communism or anything else for that matter. All I know is that tearing down the Nike store sign didnt stop anybody from doing anything. We still buy their shoes.
     
  13. poncho

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    I had New Orleans in mind when I posed the question. There were certainly witnesses there that saw citizens being disarmed. Funny too, that I haven't heard anything from the President about that. He was supposed to be pro second amendment even though he would have signed the "assault weapons ban" those liberals saddled us with. But then he was supposed to be a conservative also. Live and learn I reckon.

    Are you saying they were paid provocatuers? If so it would be kinda neat to know who paid them. From the articles and reports I've read about these riots the agitators left the scene and holed up in an old apartment building paid by the feds before the gas and batons came into play. But then we've been trained not to believe anyone in the independent press and only rely on the corporate media's version of the, truth?

    You're familar with the affects of tears gas as I am if you are in the military so you must know that one would be compelled to struggle a bit with someone in the way to get out of it. Providing you can stop gagging and vomiting long enough of course.

    You mean like Randy Weaver and his family?

    Now you're doing my thinking for me and stretching it to the extreme. Half of my family are either in the police dept or retired from it and they are the ones speaking out the loudest about the police state.

    Robocop was a fictional movie I didn't really care for it though. Now Waco, that was real life you remember that don't you? It was even in the corporate press (complete with the propaganda to let the guilty parties walk away free and clear) I hope you're not going to give me the excuse that only liberals were involved in all that and all those people were a threat to soceity.

    Are you opposed to communism?
     
  14. Gina B

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    Thanks. [​IMG]
     

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