Political and Religious Topic, I am torn...

I think the promises to Israel are to believing Israel - that is, those Jews who believe in Christ as the Messiah. This is in the future. I don't see that we need to be supporting all that civil Israel does.

 

Won't comment on "--supporting all that civil Israel does", since I don't know much of the civil side, BUT I do know that we had better support Israel in her fight against the rest of the world, or we'll be paying the price. Fact is, I think much of our trouble today is from this garbage of forcing Israel to give up "--land for peace".

Yeah, yeah, I know all you replacement theologists think that Israel is now the church, but 'taint so if God speaks truth.

God has made Israel "sit in the corner" for the past coupla thousand years and the church has been sitting on the front row, but Israel is soon to get her seat back.

 

Especially if stories like the sale of Israeli fighter jet technology to communist China are true.

 

An unbelieving Israeli has no promises, except Hell in the future.

 

Scofieldism, Darbyism and Dispensationalism has twisted the Bible and places so much emphasis on the country and borders of national Israel and not "the Israel of God". There is nothing "special" about an unbelieving Jew.

 

Why????????

 

I don't accept replacement theology. You should not make assumptions like this - next time, ask first.

 

The geography in the Middle East we call Israel is occupied by a counterfeit nation who robbed the Palestinians of the land, and who now occupies it immorally and illegally.

I say return it all to the Palestinians.

 

Tim, what is your view on Israel? Has the church replaced it?

Where have you been? I would have liked your input on all my end times threads. :wavey:

 

Sorry Marcia, you were not the target of this statement.

Looking back over my post I can see how you got this impression, but be assured you were not the target. I shifted gears after the 1st paragraph, but failed to so note.

I was referring to a few on this board who think that God has decapitated and dismembered Israel and we, the church, are the new "chosen" of Him.

God has merely given Israel a good "whuppin'", sat her in the corner with the dunce cap, and put the church in her seat for a coupla' thousand years.

I believe, with the resurgence of Israel as a nation, that God is preparing to move the church out of this seat and put Israel back in her original place as His chosen.

Again, my apologies for not being clear in this regard!!!!:thumbs:

 

The way I see it from a political standpoint....
The Palestinians are bent on the total destruction of all Jewish people. The land for peace deal has failed every time it is offered. Appeasement of extremist people is not possible. Chaimberlin tried it with Hitler and it did not work. If a group is bent on global domination that or defeating them are the only ends.

From a Christian standpoint. God made promises not only to the spiritual descendants, but also to the genetic descendants of Abraham. The bent of the muslims has always been kill any and all jewish people and also anyone who is their ally. They have mixed politics and religion and until our politicians come to that realization, we are in trouble. I am not saying that all muslims hate us but..... there are 2+ billion muslims in the world. and they say that 15% of them are for the terrorist side. That makes 300 million that support terrorist activities. These extreme guys will even kill other muslims if they don't believe the same flavor. Kind of like baptists killing pentecostals or lutherans....

If we insist that Israel give up land for peace, we need to insist that the Palistinians follow and enforce their end of the bargain.

Aint gonna happen till the end times. That will come when God has determined that it should come, no sooner and no later. We think we have so much power, but we really are like a bunch of ants.

 

Wow!

Wow!

I am actually speechless....well, at least I can post a few Scriptures.

Zechariah 12:1 ¶ The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 ¶ And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.
1 ¶ In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

Romans 1:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Unsaved Israel is still blinded and lost in their sins. Some of them are still under the Old Covenant,like the orthodox, not recognizing that Yeshua came the first time as a suffering servant (Isaiah 53)...they wanted the conquering hero, the lion of Judah, the first time to free them from Roman rule. Some of them are agnostics or athiests.

Unsaved Israel most definitely is incredibly apostate....they have gay pride parades in Jerusalem. Their abortion rate is reported to be higher than that of some Western nations. It is difficult to imagine them as the recipients of God's grace and forgiveness, but, according to Zechariah 12, sometime in the future, this wonderful event will indeed occur.

Your sis in Christ,
Beth

 

I agree

Absolutely, this is not the first time they have behaved in this manner...each time their apostasy reached a horrendous level, they have been duly chastised by the Lord through the sword and captivity....Assyria carrying off the northern tribes, Babylon carrying off the southern tribes, Rome sacking Jerusalem in Ad70, etc.

There remains a further judgment, when God again gathers the nations to battle against Jerusalem.

A very horrible time lays ahead of Israel.....

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, and your spoil will be divided in your midst. For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; the city shall be taken, the houses rifled, and the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, but the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south. Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, for the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Juday. Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You.

This has definitely not happened yet. The Mount of Olives has not been split in two at the Lord's Second Coming, and we (the saints) are not with Him as yet returning with Him.

This return will be as visible and concrete as His ascension was in Acts 1, where, by the way, He ascended in a cloud from the Mount of Olives.

9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 ¶ Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day’s journey.

There is just too much Scriptural evidence to support Christ's return to Judah who, at His Second Coming, reside in Jerusalem.

Your sis in Christ,
Beth

 

Or.....it could be that Christ did come and split the mount of olives at His first advent. Christ's coming caused a great divide between believing and unbelieving Jews. Part of Israel was "cut off" for unbelief.

And when you say that "Israel has done this before", it was before the coming of Christ and His final sacrifice for sins and before He said "it is finished". Now there is a new covenant for the old has passed away.

Just thoughts. I'm looking at all views.

 

The plan will probably be "preempted" very soon. I know Israel isn't going to do it until after the election but I believe they MUST do it before Barack takes charge -- that is, they MUST "take out" Iran! (Sidebar: It might even be good for McCain if they attacked BEFORE the election making foreign policy the most significant issue! But unless Israel can see that, I believe they are "sidestepping" what they need to do so as NOT to influence our election.)

If they do that, they will face Iran's surrogates Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan in a Zech 11: confrontation. In that war, I believe Israel will take back much Arab land + Jerusalem, AC will "sign off" on it ("confirm the peace") and pluck up their 3 shepherds/kings, and promise to provide homes and sustenance to their populaces -- until he breaks the covenant. (Y'all recognize this, don't you?). Temple Mount will be "internationalizes" as the AC has always wanted and Israel will begin temple construction.

This war may not all fall out of the Iranian situation all at once but I believe it will make even especially EU glad that when the oil situation in the Middle East is resolved.

skypair