Politics in Corporate Worship: What Would You Do?

The whole way you posted and bragged about how you didn't recite the pledge speaks volumes as far as I am concerned.

 

If you have a personal conviction, then abide by it, but I think it's judgmental to assume it's a sin for those who do incorporate the pledge into worship services. I've already stated that for me, the pledge inspires worship to God. It is not a sin for me to say the pledge during church service simply because someone else says it's wrong FOR THEM to do so. It's not a sin for me to honor mothers during worship on Mother's Day. If it's a sin for you, then don't do it.

I get tired of people trying to pin their own personal convictions on others and judging others as sinning based on their own opinion and interpretation of scripture.

 

Remember you have 1st amendment rights.

Regarding being a Communist, had you told me your going to be a US Senator today or a Congressman get elected & then conspire with wall street bankers to flit away the tax payers money & bankrupt the country, then maybe I'd consider you a Communist.

 

So why don't you pledge allegiance at all anymore?

We don't do the pledge in church or in VBS, so I don't have a dog in this fight.

 

Apparently some abide by a different pledge and they keep repeating that in their mind. It is similar to almost any other entity that wants to grow by devious means.

 

OK so your not running for congress...LOL

 

Those are the "True Communists" that will be the undoing of this Country. And our elected officials are conspiring with them to bankrupt the nation. So lets all vilify those who are out of work because of these folks magnificent complicity & greed. Perhaps eventually we can all get jobs washing their cars, cutting their grass & vacuuming their pools.

 

Ps. 9:20, "Put them in fear, O Lord; Let the nations know that they are but men. Selah." Nations are men.

By your not saying the pledge what does that communicate to others? It may communicate that you are a JW in disguise. It may communicate rebellion. It may communicate that you are a pacifist. It may communicate that you are against the military. It can communicate so many negative things that you would not want to communicate. I cannot ever think of any time that a person ever said to me or anyone else I could hear that they ever thought of it as the focal point of a service or of as worship.

Personally I am convinced that most worship services in America are nothing more than songs among the dead to make them feel good and calling that coming into God's presence. start calling men and women to join you in reaching those in the community and see how many come. It is much the same as in Amos' day. I have done that and initially I got very few to join me. (When I started making disciples that changed and upset the power brokers). There are times when I have gotten rebellion in subtle and outward ways. Once I had a deacons start yelling at me in a deacon's meeting because I wanted to bring in someone to teach them how to witness to Mormons. He asked, "What are you trying to do? Stir up the community?" I told him, "Yes." They had a regular practice of inviting the Mormon bishop to come and teach about once a year.

 

So where does God tell us to worship him in this way in the church? Don't you think God knows the proper way to worship him? And don't you think he told us what the proper way to worship him is?

I am not sure where man gets the prerogative to worship God in his own way. You are correct that it's not a sin to say the pledge during a church service because someone else says its wrong for them to do. I would say it's a sin because it is contrary to what God told us to do.

When we come to God, we are to come as God says, not as man says.

 

What is the purpose of the church? Is it not to worship God AND edify the believers? What if we can do both at the same time?

With this logic, it must be a "sin" for my church to sing happy birthday to its members, because God didn't tell us to do that.

 

I try not to say much around here, but have lost the struggle to remain quiet.

I volunteered for my military service, and if the need arose for a guy in his late 40's with a medical discharge, I would volunteer again. This is just one guy's perspective, feel free to take it or leave.

Being patriotic is far secondary to our relationship with the Lord and His people. However, I love my country and feel supporting is important.

I don't care if you say the pledge of allegiance or not. I don't care if you stand at attention during the national anthem. I don't care if you do it in church, at the ball park, or anywhere else. These things are what I would consider to be pseudo-patriotic. It is easy to do in a controlled, safe environment, and frankly, I am not impressed.

If you want to be patriotic:

• Vote. Not just in large, general elections. Participate in the local elections and the primary processes.
• Stay in contact with your elected representatives on local and national levels. Be part of the solution where possible. Be a thorn when necessary.
• Find out about a young man/woman going through basic training (who may be 18 and away from home for the first time). Send them a card or letter of encouragement.
• Find out about a deployed soldier/seaman/airman. Provide specific support for their (and/or their young family's) needs. They don't have to be in a combat zone but could be on remote assignment in some other "garden spot".
• Other....

In short, being patriotic is like ministry. You have to get your hands a little dirty for it to be the real thing.

 

1) Several come to mind, (2) yes, those are among them though there are more, and (3) we can and should. All worship should edify believers.

But the point I am trying to make perhaps clumsily is that the God whom we are worshipping has told us how to worship when we gather for worship.

Let me try an analogy: You, as a wife, know what you like, what pleases you on your anniversary. Your husband, who wants to please you, should listen to you and believe you when you tell him what makes you happy on your anniversary. He should not go out on his own and say, "Well, playing golf makes me feel good, and therefore I will play golf to honor my wife on our anniversary." Why? Because his playing golf does not make you feel good (in the example). IT doesn't honor you.

When God has told us how to worship him, we don't have the right to consider what we think helps us to worship him. It's not our call. It is God's call.

And again, I would make the point that the distinct nature of the church is the absence of nationality. We should do nothing to send any other message. The pledge of allegiance divides the church because not all are American in the church, and we are asking people in the church to divide themselves on the basis of national allegiance rather than unify themselves on the basis of the gospel.

As a part of worship, absolutely right. It is a sin to sing Happy Birthday to someone as a part of the worship of God.

Now the church may, on some other occasion, do that, just as it may recite the Pledge of Allegiance on another occasion (whether that would be wise or not is another matter, and I think it to be manifestly unwise to practice any sort of national or political issue as a part of the church).

But the point in this discussion was about reciting the pledge during a worship service. And that's what I am talking about.

 

I can agree to those two points.

 

AMEN! Great ideas there. My church actually does all of these.

 

As usual, Pastor Larry takes what I was trying to say and says it much better

This is true and false. I think some funerals can be worship services, but many are not. I refuse to call it worship when we hear how great Mr. Smith is for an hour and we hear singing about how we can't wait to see Mr. Smith and grandma and grandpa and we'll all get together on the porches of our respective mansions.

The best funerals are ones where the grieving are comforted with the glory of God as seen in the gospel of Christ, and where we talk more about Him than the person in the casket.

I find it instructive that we are repeatedly called aliens and strangers in this world in the Bible. Yet in today's church, we've blended in so much with the culture that we're not aliens and strangers. We're way too cozy with the culture. As much as I love this country, it's not worthy of allegiance that should go to the Kingdom of my Savior.