Politics, pragmatism, and the lesser of two evils

Discussion in 'Politics' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Jun 2, 2008.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    One again the Republicrats have forced Americans believers into a dilemma. Once again they feel compelled to vote for the "lesser of two evils" and be pragmatic in their choices. Once again they are faced with pragmatism over principle.

    Why is it that good, godly Christians are willing to violate their honest Bible principles when it comes to voting? Is the lesser of two evils any more right? Is evil, even "lesser." not still evil?

    Is this the one area where the end does justify the means?
     
    #1 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jun 2, 2008
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  2. hillclimber1

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    A vote is always for the lessor of two or more evils. Neither Peter, Paul, Moses, or the Lord is on the ticket. Pragmatism is what it is and principle is always compromised, else we couldn't vote.

    Are you advocating abstention in this election? If so, on these grounds, we must never vote. Biblical principles are roundly ignored by all unsaved, and many saved. Just look at this web site.

    Having said that, I'm still not sure I can vote for McCain, as I believe he's tetched.
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Well, Peter, Paul, and Moses were still sinners. We don't even look for a perfect pastor. My point is voting for people that we know stand for or accept wicked and sinful policies.

    Is Christian pragmatism an oxymoron?

    I am only asking questions :)
     
  4. hillclimber1

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    True enough, but I thought they might meet your level of acceptance.


    Probably. I don't suppose I'd use it in this context. Would you care to elucidate?


    Are you planning to vote, or actually can you?
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    It all depends on who is on Alabama's ballot. I can't vote for Obama, Clinton, or McCain, not because I can't get a ballot, but because of who they are.

    I don't know - thats part of the reason I am asking the question.

    How bad would a Republican candidate have to be to not be assured the conservative Christian vote?
     
    #5 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jun 2, 2008
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  6. hillclimber1

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    OK, we've established that evil can be found in everyone. I've always cast my ballot for someone that doesn't exhibit too much evil for my ballot. Reagan was divorced but I still voted for him. GWB was a drinker in his early years, and I supported him, still do in fact.

    Sen. McCain has enough against him that my evil detector is near max, and add to that his mental condition, or rather my perception of it, and I have a tough job ahead. Sen Obama is completely unacceptable by any spirit filled, halfway politically savvy conservative Christian, IMO. Make that "any" true Christian.
     
  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I appreciate this - I really do. And I guess it points out the crux of the matter here. If, by November, he crosses your evil detector and you have to vote 3rd party, will your vote be wasted?

    He has already crossed the red point on my evil detector - does that mean my vote is wasted?
     
  8. Crabtownboy

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    Are we faced with the choice of;

    1-the lesser of two evils?

    or

    2-the evil of two lessers?
     
  9. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Fair question
     
  10. dragonfly

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    That's quite a statement, "any true Christian?"
     
  11. Crabtownboy

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    I really have a hard time believing people make such statements. It is this type of narrow attitude that turn so many people away from churches today ... this if you do not agree with me you are lost, LOst, LOST. I certainly am glad that God is the one who makes such decisions as who is a Christian and who is not.
     
    #11 Crabtownboy, Jun 2, 2008
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  12. LadyEagle

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    Baloney.

    Matthew 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"


    Back on topic, I don't think it matters if Christians stay home and don't vote. The Electoral College elects the president. I plan to sit this election out and not vote for the "lesser of two evils."
     
    #12 LadyEagle, Jun 2, 2008
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  13. Pastor Larry

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    Perhaps we need a more rigorous approach in our thinking on the issue of principle vs. pragmatics. It is too easily (and too often) suggested that the "lesser of two evils" is a compromise of principle. Is it? What is the principle?

    Let's use an analogy. What is the principle when you go to the doctor? Do you say, "Doctor, if you can't fix it all perfectly, then do not fix it at all." Of course not. Or what about when you shop. Do you say, "If I can't shop at a store that has no connection at all to the baser things of human life (e.g., alcohol, pornography), then I won't shop at all?" Of course not. We easily recognize the principle at work.

    So first, we must consider, "What is the principle?" The principle in politics is, to my way of thinking, if we can't get everything we want, let us at least determine to do the least damage for the sake the "next time around." It makes no sense to cut off your nose to spite your face. It is true that an Obama election might raise up conservatives to be more vehement in their opposition to political moderatism and liberalism. (It might not.). But there is no doubt that an Obama presidency will take America much farther down the wrong road than a McCain presidency. So we must determine that if we cannot have everything we want, we will at least work to get what we can, and save a nation for the next time around.

    Second, we must remember that no matter who we are voting for, it is always a vote for the lesser of two evils. There is no perfect candidate, and we should not pretend to be on our moral high horse over not voting for the lesser of two evils, and instead voting for an evil third party candidate. Sin is pervasive. We are all sinners, and there are no exceptions.

    Third, we must not stay home. If one stays home in this election, they are voting to not have their voice heard in an important matter. Yes, you will be able to claim you didn't help elect the next president. And yes, at least some of the guilt will lie on your shoulders for not exercising your vote properly. To stay at home is to sit down in an hour of need and do nothing. That is pure pragmatism. You think the ends (avoiding contribution to a further weakened society) justifies the means (refusing to vote). I say it is political cowardice and unprincipled behavior.

    It has been said that America will have the kind of government it deserves. This may indeed by true, and those that stay at home rather than voting deserve the kind of government they get.
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    The doctor analogy falls short. There is no real comparison between fighting off disease and fighting off those who would support and condone the murder of children such as the current liberal Presidential candidates.
     
  15. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I again pose my question - how evil does the Republican have to be before he loses the conservative evangelical vote? When does the lesser of two evils become too evil to vote for?
     
  16. hillclimber1

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    One thing you have accomplished for me Roger, is that I don't look with quite so much disdain, those that vote 3rd party. While I still consider it a wasted vote, it is better than no vote, if there is an acceptable candidate. I guess my position is changing, the closer my meter gets to reject. One thing I can say is that for the first time, the Republican party hasn't gotten a nickel from me in this election cycle.
     
    #16 hillclimber1, Jun 2, 2008
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  17. Pastor Larry

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    It is an excellent analogy in that you don't allow the doctor to amputate your head, but you might allow him to amputate your hand. It simply points out that we recognize there are degrees of issues. You can't handle them all the same way.
     
  18. hillclimber1

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    Yes, that is what I intended to say....:thumbs:
     
  19. Bro. Curtis

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    AMEN !!!!!!!!! Excellent response.

    People who claim we put God in a box are usually trying to justify some unbiblical belief. So we become the issue. Shameful.
     
  20. LadyEagle

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    This isn't true. Some of us have voted every election and the candidates usually say whatever it takes to get them elected, but once in office, forget about the needs and desires of the electorate. They are nearly all corrupt & even though we did not believe we were voting for corruption, that's what we got anyway. The kind of government we have is not what we voted for through the years, but it's what we got handed against our wishes. I will not give up my principles just to vote the lesser of two evils because the worst evil might win.
     

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