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Poll: #3, Suicide & Lapsi

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ed Edwards, Jan 11, 2007.

?
  1. 1. Unsaved suicides go to hell

    57.9%
  2. 2. saved suicides go to hell

    15.8%
  3. 3. non-repentant lapsi go to hell

    10.5%
  4. 4. repentant lapsi go to hell

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. 5. OSAS suicides & lapsi go to heaven

    47.4%
  6. 6. Ignorance & Apathy: I don't know &/or I don't care

    15.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    If you are going to be a Martyr then you chicken out and get untied from the stake and go back home... and then you're going to be a Martyer again and yet again chicken out and get untied from the stake and go back home...

    does that make you a Relapsi?
     
  2. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    the heart attack thing just made me think of that.
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Short answer: Yes.

    Long answer follows ...
     
  4. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    Suicides go to hell only if they are lost without Christ. The only thing that causes anyone to go to hell is disbelief. I have no idea what Lapsi is.
     
  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    'Lapsi' comes from the latin 'lapsus' = 'a fall'.
    We get the English word 'lapse' = 'a slip of the
    tongue, pen, or memory' from the Latin 'lapsus'.

    Anyway, a lapsi is a person who, after having declared
    Jesus as Lord and receiving Jesus as Savior,
    the lapsi later denys Jesus is Lord.

    During the Roman persecutions from 80AD
    to 308AD one of the top ten leading questions
    for Christians was "Can a Lapsi get saved again"?
    or "Can a Lapsi go to heaven"?

    (in the 21st century /2001-2100/ one of the top
    ten questions Christians ask each other is
    "if a woman who wears pants to church
    dies, does she go straight to hell"?
     
  6. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The truth of the matter, Ed, is:

    We live in America (or Canada). We enjoy all the luxuries of life. You have probably never lived in an Islamic nation that has been put under martial law, nor in a Communist nation that puts converts to death, nor in the time of the early emperors that carried out horrid persecutions against Christians, nor in the time of the Inquistions.

    We live in the West, in modern civilizations where we have freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and many other freedoms, most of which we take for granted. Reading biographies such as "To the Golden Shore," by Adoniram Judson would shed some light on the issue. Or other books by those that have gone into Communist lands like those by Richard Wurmbrandt.
    Read of the Jews who endured the concentration camps without denying their God (and some Christians too).

    The point of all this is simply that you can boast like Peter did: "I will never deny thee Lord," but when facing the sword, looking down a gun barrel, facing Chinese torture chambers, etc., the fact remains you don't know what you would do or say. Jesus forgave Peter for denying Him. He would forgive others for denying Him as well, especially if they were under such extreme circumstances. Coercion to deny Christ, is not really a denial of Christ. Being forced to say: I deny you, when in your heart you don't deny him, is not really a denial. There may be an element of cowardice there, but I wouldn't really consider it denial--not enough to keep one out of heaven. In other words the person under such pressure would not be going apostate which is an entirely different thing. I am hoping I am making some sense to you.
     
  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Amen, Brother DHK - you are so RIGHT ON! :thumbs:

    But our first choice aught to be to preserve unto the end.

    And no doctrine of the Bible gives us a license to sin, none, nadda,
    nix, zilch, zero; there is no sin license.
     
  8. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    I really would just hate to think of being in Hell with a dress on.
     
  9. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word New Member

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    Then you make Jesus out to be a liar! For Jesus said
    One can deny Christ in one's heart, and still do good works making others who see him think he is a Christian. Many will say 'so and so did a Christian act today'.

    But tthe one who speaks the very words, 'I deny Him' audibly, in the ears of others, Christ has promised to deny before the Father.

    Peter cannot be used to say Christ will not hold a denial against you... unless you do as Peter did. He repented of his denial, and later Preached the Word boldly before men.

    But be assured, if you deny Him before men, under duress or not, and you die before you repent and confess, He will be true to His Word. He will deny you before God.
     
  10. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    My point in the other thread...that some folk are unable to maturely discuss issues...has been reinforced.
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Diggin in da Word: //Then you make Jesus out to be a liar! For Jesus said

     
  12. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    this was too silly so I just edited it out.
     
    #112 Claudia_T, Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2007
  13. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word New Member

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    Ed,

    My post was unkind? Then you must think John was unkind when he wrote

    1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    No, it was not unkind... it was the truth. DHK apparently is ... [personal attack removed].

    Sad to say, many posters on this board do.

    [Moderator Warning: Debate the issue without resorting to making personal attacks against the person holding the opposing view. Likewise, the BB rules prohibit you from questioning the salvation of your fellow posters.]
     
    #113 Diggin in da Word, Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2007
  14. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Well I personally dont like conversing with someone who is calling me a liar, or saying Im making God out to be a liar, etc., just because I state my own views on a subject. I try to avoid talking to people like that from then on.

    Because to me its a bad tactic and shows a lack of just good Biblical support for their positions. and then all they are going to do is try and make you look bad by calling you a liar. So from that point on I figure its just useless even wasting time talking to them.
     
    #114 Claudia_T, Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2007
  15. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Hey...I have a plan! Let's personally attack a mod!
    Then let's stab ourselves in the eyballs with pencils!

    Translation of DITW's "thoughts:"
    • DHK disagrees with me; thus,
    • DHK is serving Satan and hates Jesus, and
    • So does anyone else who disagrees with me on anything.
    By the way...if you slander someone, it's OK...you go to heaven. It's not like suicide or anything.

    Now playing: "Strike up the Banned"
     
  16. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Luke 12:8 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Also I say vnto you,
    Whosoeuer shall confesse me before men,
    him shall the Sonne of man also confesse
    before the Angels of God.


    Matthew 10:33 (KJV1611 Edition):
    But whosoeuer shall deny me before men,
    him will I also deny before my Father which is in heauen.


    So here is a lapsi scenario:

    TheEd confesses in public that 'Jesus is Lord'.
    Jesus confesses before the Angles of God that
    TheEd said "Jesus is Lord".
    TheEd starts serving the Lord, serving the local
    church, serving widows & fatherless children*

    *(Fatherless children can have mothers, the Bible
    frequently speaks of 'the fatherless child' instead
    of 'an orphan'.)

    In a general persecution of Christians TheEd,
    under severe torture denies Jesus being his Lord.
    Jesus denies TheEd before God the Father.
    TheEd later in bitter tears repents of his infidelity
    to the Lord and again pubicly declares:
    "Jesus is my Lord & Savior".

    What does Jesus do?
    I believe that Jesus will do like the scripture says:
    Jesus, the Son of Man, confesses TheEd
    before the Angels of God.

    Comment to Black & White-ists:
    We are discussing the seeming conflict of
    two scriptures as applied to actual situations.
    We are not LYING about what Jesus said,
    we are not denying any scirpture, we are discussing
    how the scriptures work, what the scriptures
    mean.

    If at this point in my story, Jesus denies us,
    then Luke 12:8 is conflicted.
    If at this point in my story, Jesus says
    we are saved - isn't he telling the truth also?
     
  17. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    well to me Ed, you're just giving the same picture as was Peter who denied Jesus under pressure then went back and repented and Jesus said "Feed My Sheep"...

    unless Im misunderstanding what you are saying
     
  18. His Blood Spoke My Name

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    [Moderator Warning: If you have a problem with a forum moderator BB protocol is for you to first attempt to address it via PM with the moderator in question. If you continue to run into the same issue with the same moderator BB protocol is for you the notify a BB Administrator and/or the BB Webmaster via PM. It is not a good idea for you to "air your dirty laundry" in an open public forum.]
     
    #118 His Blood Spoke My Name, Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2007
  19. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza New Member

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    Moderators are moderators, and if they need talking to, it happens in moderator areas.

    Why do you care what DHK says or does? Does he decide your mood for the day, your eternal disposition, or anything else?
     
  20. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    we could start a thread on that subject and discuss it (only joking)
     
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