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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by LadyEagle, Oct 28, 2005.
Sad isn't it?
Though I have to admit, on this board I often see people accused of lying when in fact the person should be accusing them of making a mistake.
I think the ones who are quick to call someone a liar are behaving in a very unbiblical manner. Christ said: Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
I think Christians need to be VERY, very slow to accuse others of lying, and should assume, if they think a brother or sister in Christ is giving inaccurate information, to assume they are in error not lying.
Also - I always remember my mother's words. "Only a man who lies often automatically assumes everyone else is a liar."
I can give you instances of Baptist leaders and missions directors who have lied and continue to lie to coverup wrong doing, and I can take it one step further by providing evidence of the lies and the wrong doing ( as well as some violations of the law by these so called men of God). Christians are forgiven sinners, I am forgiven by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Some men of God seem to thingk that His forgivness is a license to lie, cheat and even steal.
Before we jump all over other Christians who have lied, let's follow Christ's words in Matthew 7:1-11 and think about the times we have lied to other Christians.
Yes, but Biblical discernment allows for calling out one's actions/behavior. If not, we can't say anything to anyone about the behavior, including criminals. I expect one to use righteous Biblical judgment in regards to me as I would anyone else. I must be held accountable. We are not to question the motive or fate of man, but his actions/behavior, that should be a given.
If all have lied, then we can't call anyone out right? We are all hyprocrites. If a man is having an affair and lies to his wife, can she not judge his actions, or does she say nothing because, afterall, she has also lied?
I agree with your sentiments. I did not say that we cannot call out the actions of others or that we are all hypocrites.
Simply that if we do not want to be hypocrites, we need to follow Jesus' words in Matthew 7:1-11 which tells us to look at ourselves first, then we can look at others.
I think a question that would have been good in this poll is "Have you ever lied to a Christian?". Of course, anyone who says no is probably lying.
TexasSky, I agree!
but le bel,
that "calling out" is supposed to be done to the individual who has lied or done some other wrongdoing.
The thing I see being done constantly is an attempt to point out another person's wrongdoing, but doing that pointing out in a public "forum", whether a message board like this, or in a church business meeting, or writing letters to other pastors, even.
This is not correctly "calling the person out." The correct way is to confront the person in private first, than with two or three witnesses, than to that person's church leadership......
I'm guessing this is related to forums? Or just life in general?
Any sort of "calling out" whether done in private is always seen as harmful judgment. Even though it's not so, that's why I have encountered. I certainly wouldn't call someone out in public, that's just not right.
just life in general, le bel, though Id certainly agree that it happens in forums, too.
I know we are all for doing things the Bible way when we are the ones "confronting" the wrongdoer, but how easy it is to get defensive when we are the one being confronted!
I agree, le bel
Definitely! This happens way too often.
But the poll is about life in general, not just about forums.
The extent of lying could go as far as being on forums from your work computer (which would be cheating your employer), not being completely truthful on income tax, not correcting an undercharge at the cash register, driving off without paying for gas, not paying a bill that one owes, or lying to one's spouse, even a little "white lie."
Poll #1 is here:
since Im the one guilty of first using the term "public forum" in this thread....let me clarify that I meant it in the sense of any public arena.....
life in general, as LadyEagle said.
Wow, that many people know Christians who lie habitually? I don't think that I do. Either that or I'm not very perceptive.
I am thinking mostly of specific verbal untruths, not dishonesty like LadyEagle just mentioned, though.
Hello, LadyEagle! Hello, Baptist Board!
My name is Blackbird and I am part of the Liar's Club.
I have lied before to get myself out of a jam!
I have lied while in the jam! I have lied while I wasn't even close to being in the jam!
I have lied to get out of a jam---and found that lie only pushed me further into the jam it was I was in for lieing!
I believe that all the people who are not in the Liar's club---are liars!! IOW--those who say they have never lied---are lieing---and you cannot trust them with the truth!!
Lying is very much the "way of things" in this life. We are lied to and are taught to lie at an early age. If a young child draws a picture or sings a song, do you tell them it's "real good," no matter how bad it was? And if your own child is invited to a friend's house for dinner, do you tell them to say "That was good meal," no matter what really think about it?
One thing that can be sickening about church is all the loose lies you hear almost every week. If someone shows up with a new hair style, or new clothes or shoes, you hear, "Oh, that's lovely dress," or "You got a haircut-- looks nice!" If someone is really has strong convictions about lying, then they may just cut if off short at "You got a haircut" and smile, when they think that person just made herself look uglier, but implying the opposite.
It's all about ego. We won't be popular if we don't feed peoples' egos, which is why people who are quiet and shy are not well liked.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
In Joshua 2 we find Rahab lying through her teeth and God rewarding her for hiding the two men. Rahab did not bear false witness AGAINST her neighbor but she did bear false witness FOR her neighbor. I have never understood this for I have always understood that ALL lying was wrong. Thoughts, anyone???
Every one lies.... its in our sin nature. When we get saved our sin nature doen't leave us. If we are having a bad day and someone asks us how we are doing do we say "bad"? or "im fine" or "ok". Think about it. I do it all the time.
Yep, you're right Clean.