Poor Pilates Plight

Based on what Luke has taught me I can say with certainty that God did indeed cause you to fart at your uncle's wedding.

God also caused that somebody to be gang raped.

 

Matt....to discuss this properly, we would have to discuss the Providence Of God Doctrine.... which I am not prepared to do right now. I would also prefer to let Luke respond.

Don, I hope your conclusions do not accuse fellow Brothers in Christ of being Hyper or Neo "Anything! If I may suggest, simply ask the individual or individual's in question if God directly puts evil thoughts into the minds of Man of if Man (even those saved by Grace) are capable of evil thoughts & actions. At least that could turn into a lively discussion....LOL.

 

We've been discussing this for weeks. Everything I learned has come straight from Luke. Actually, now that I think about it, it hasn't come straight from Luke. It has come straight from God! Luke is not able to teach me about anything. He is incapable of making a choice without it being exactly what God wants him to do. So, if Luke has been teaching me this, then it has actually been God utilizing Luke to teach me exactly this.

 

Here's another interesting thought that God just make me think.

For the entire time that I was arguing with Luke over this, I wasn't actually arguing with him! God was arguing with Himself! God caused Luke to teach us about Calvinism and God also caused me to doubt it and to argue with Luke. So, we can deduce that God was arguing with Himself because He was the cause of both sides of the argument!

 

Baptist Confession of Faith-1689 / FYI

CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE

Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.

 

Love your sarcasm brother, I wish I could pull it off as do you. God Bless!
:laugh::laugh:

 

Yea, but I see him more like Flip Wilson, only it's not the devil.....It's, "God made me do it"...uh huh!:laugh:

 

Hello Matt,

Let me get your feed back on one verse...

If I understand you, this is what your point is. right?


Why would Paul write this?

 

The Bible teaches very clearly that God is the ultimate cause of ALL THINGS.

You have not argued to the contrary. You have not provided any Scripture to support the notion that God is NOT the ultimate cause of all things.

You seem not to care if the Word of God teaches it- you don't like it so you are going to mock it, the Bible be hanged.

 

Now you are starting to get it. :thumbs:

I have made it very clear from the Word of God with such verses as Romans 11:36 and numerous others that the Bible teaches that God controls EVERYTHING large and small, good and evil.

But God cannot be charged with himself doing evil because of motive.

Motive is what makes something evil or good.

God's motive for everything he causes is good.

Man's motive for many of those same things is evil.

Man is not FORCED to do it. God does not FORCE him to do evil. God hates evil in and of itself.

But God wills that it exist for the greater good- His glory. Without evil there is no Calvary, no Lamb being praised forever, no ultimate display of the love and grace of God.

So God made people in such a way that they would make choices. Those choices, without his assistance would become corrupt. They would become corrupt BECAUSE he would not assist them. Evil is nothing but the absence of good. God withdrew himself from Adam TO ALLOW him to fall SO THAT evil could come into existence.

By that evil God would love a people, his people, to death. He would show that love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

Because he willed evil to exist, not by forcing ANYONE to do it, but by withdrawing his assistance infallibly bringing it to pass, in the ages to come God will show forth the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2

 

Excellent post Luke.

It is the Church's lack of God-supremacy theology, that has brought a man-centered doxology!

This from John Piper's book "GOD'S PASSION FOR HIS GLORY"

So Much of Man, So Little of God
Jonathan Edwards had a profound insight into this very state of
affairs, and it has to do directly with the absence of Godcenteredness: “It is one great reason why speculative points [of doctrine] are thought to be of so little importance, that the modern religion consists so little in respect to the divine Being, and almost wholly in benevolence to men.”
In other words, the sickness that needs healing is the main hindrance to the remedy​

 

For those that were arguing God allows evil to exist, and uses it for good -- this is the recognition that God caused/causes evil.

 

Don,

Martin Luther struggled with this, particularly Exodus 14, where God hardens Pharaoh's heart. I suggest reading Luther's "On the Bondage of the Will". You will discover that even though Man harbors evil in his heart, that God doesn't create fresh evil in his heart, the evil is there already. If God does anything, He simply withholds His Grace. Why precisely this or that one is placed in circumstances which lead to saving faith, while others are not so placed, is indeed, a mystery. We cannot explain the working of Providence; BUT WE KNOW THAT THE JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH SHALL DO RIGHT--GENESIS 18:25; and that when we attain to perfect knowledge we shall see that He has sufficient reasons for all His acts.

 

Thank you Luke for again reaffirming your teachings to me. I do now understand that God is the cause of all things. All murders, all rape, all farts in weddings, and all evil. God is the cause of all things. I truly do "get it" now.

I will commence with spreading the word that Jesus' death on the cross was unnecessary because man has no blame for anything. Man does not sin. God is the cause of all things!

 

This is exactly right. This is what I am saying. God caused evil by withdrawing himself and allowing man to function without Him. By not assisting Adam in the Garden God purposefully caused evil.

God did not create the evil no more than turning of the light "creates" darkness.

But God "turned off the light" which was the ultimate cause of evil.

To say that God did not decree ALL THINGS and that God did not intend for ALL THINGS to happen just the way they happen is to deny the Exhaustive Sovereignty of God.

We tend to shrink God because a smaller God is less ominous and less intimidating and more palatable to our human condition.

But he is Infinitely Large and totally in control of everything that ever happens.

 

No you don't get it, you just mock the truth of Scripture.

Address the whole post if you can.

 

Matt Brother, Despite the denial in two major Reformed confession the [Westminster Confession & the Baptist Confessions of 1689--See Post 45] which clearly says that God “neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin”, you are claiming that Reformed theology makes God the author of sin.

NOTE: THAT IS A CLEAR MISREPRESENTATION of Reformed Theology. Again see my earlier post 45. This has been the testimony of Reformed Theologians since the 17th Century & is just as valid today as when it was written. :thumbsup:

 

Hope Im not stealing your thunder here Jarthur, but does not the Scripture come together when you read it in it's complete form.

Since you've not heard back from Matt yet, if you'd allow me to embellish:

Romans 9:19-21 (King James Version)

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

I do appreciate this discussion because it does reflect on all these caustic conversations between Reformed & Non-Reformed Beliefs.

I dug up this post (see attached) to perhaps shed light on the subject matter.

..."The battle therefore really shouldn't be the Reformed versus the non-Reformed. The battle should be Christian theism versus atheism. The battle is between belief and unbelief. If you have non-Reformed friends that attack your Reformed understanding of sovereignty, with love and respect you have to show them they are standing right next to you facing common enemies."

http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3807

 

EW&F: Are you sure you should be addressing me?