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Featured Pope Francis gives church hundreds of new saints...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by WestminsterMan, May 12, 2013.

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  1. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    And they were all Roman Catholics, and so is God.
     
  2. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Oh, you mean like all the dogmas about Mary that have not one iota of scriptural support, or the doctrine of papal infallibility? Rome believes in continuing revelation, like the cults do.
     
  3. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    I would have to say it happened to me much in the same way.
     
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The history of the so-called "church" vs. doctrinal truth found in the Bible?
    I know what I would choose. I was given the same offer as a Catholic, and I know I chose correctly.
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I see it that the choice your making is the history of the "church" (or actual history) vs. doctrinal truth as you understand it with selected verses to support your already held belief. Rather than what scriptures taken as a whole taking it for what it actually says.
     
  6. WestminsterMan

    WestminsterMan New Member

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    Now now DHK, you are mis-representing things a bit here. According to everything you've posted you are from a Cathoic family - I'm from a Baptist one. I live in the veritable buckle on the bible belt that is overwhelmingly Protestant and I think you're from a predominately Catholic area. The choices were hardly the same. Be honest now...

    WM
     
  7. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    We can reasonably infer that Paul and Silas imparted the gospel to the jailer, who believed before he was baptized. However, there is not one word to suggest the gospel was similarly imparted to the jailer's household. Not one word.

    There are at least three examples (probably four but I can only think of three) where entire households were baptized--Cornelius, Lydia and the Philippian jailer. Nowhere is there any mention of imparting the gospel to everyone in the house, and certainly no mention of them all believing. Note that all these examples refer to the house or the household, and there is virtually 100% probability that one or more of these households included babies and young children. So, DHK, your supposition that the gospel was always preached and the people always believed before being baptized is just that--a supposition and a very tenuous one at that.
     
  8. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    As a matter of fact they were Catholics, although Rome had not yet become the center of gravity of the Christian world at that time.
     
  9. Zenas

    Zenas Active Member

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    You need to go back and read my Post #95. The fact of the matter is there is a great deal of scriptural support for the dogmas pertaining to Mary and the pope. You just don't recognize it when you see it and when it is pointed out to you, you would probably say something like, "That can't be what it means."

    I will hasten to add that something doesn't have to be in scripture for it to be a theological truth. Jesus didn't tell His apostles to write a New Testament, He told them to preach, teach and baptize. That is the job of the Church today, to impart the gospel and contend for the truth which was once for all handed down to the saints. Scripture is the inspired and infallible word of God but it does not purport to contain the complete message.

    You are wrong about the Catholic Church believing in continuing revelation, at least to the extent it is binding on everyone. The Church believes in public revelation, which ended with the death of the last apostle which is applicable to us all. They also believe in private revelation, which may be imparted to certain persons for their own edification but cannot ever rise to the level of dogma to be followed by everyone.
     
    #109 Zenas, May 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2013
  10. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    The reason that the EOC and Old Catholics exist apart from the Roman Church is because of the latter's doctrines that "developed" centuries after the early church. Maybe you can explain how that is different from what groups like the Mormons believe, teach, and do. Now I am not putting Mormons and RC's into the same group because I don't believe the Mormons are orthodox at all, whereas I do believe the RCC does contain orthodox teachings, albeit I still consider the RCC on the fringe of orthodoxy, based on some of the things I have pointed out here.
     
  11. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Oh, please.

    Small 'c' catholics encompass all Christians. Capital 'C' Catholics are an institution, a denomination.
     
  12. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    There is no evidence that any of these households contained children. Even if they did, there is not one iota of scriptural support for anyone being baptized who did not believe first.
     
  13. WestminsterMan

    WestminsterMan New Member

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    Well... history doesn't show that to be the case.

    WM
     
  14. WestminsterMan

    WestminsterMan New Member

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    Do you actually believe that these families didn't have any children? What the heck do you think they were doing?

    WM
     
  15. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Actually, it does. The only way to maintain otherwise is to read later institutionalism back into the early churches. The word "catholic" meant universal, not an institution such as the Roman Catholic Church.
     
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Do you actually believe that the planet Pluto is made of green cheese.
    Go ahead. Look it up. You will find it in Hezekiah 3:4.
    But if you believe there is a case made for infant baptism in the Bible you are gullible enough to believe anything. And like many others you will read anything you want to into the Bible no matter how ridiculous it may be.
     
  17. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    I'm saying the text does not specifically state there were children. And I also said even if there were, there is still no instance of anyone in scripture being baptized who did not first believe. If you know of such, please point it out. I'll be waiting..... In one such case of these households, it even states that the whole household believed. Can infants believe?
     
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The jailer's family: jailer and wife.
    Four children: three sons and one daughter--all unmarried.
    Two twin sons, both 16; one 18 year old daughter and a 20 year old son.
    Since none are married, no small children, and no grandchidren.
    All servants are single.
    Therefore there were no infants baptized in the household. Your theory does not fly. My facts are historically correct, far more accurate than yours. They come from the same source however--silence.
     
  19. WestminsterMan

    WestminsterMan New Member

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    Well not everything is in scripture is it....

    WM
     
  20. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Right. Like infant baptism, Mariolatry, papal infallibility, etc.
     
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