Position on translations leads to....

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Alcott, Feb 2, 2003.

  1. Alcott

    Alcott
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    One thing I have observed in this forum is that both KJVO's and MV supporters indicate ideas that this particular topic has further ramifications than the specific discussion itself. KJVO's, for example, seem to think MV supporters disdain biblical authority because they have no single authoritative Bible, and thus they associate that with an "anything goes" approach to church and worship. MV supporters likewise think KJVO's are just 'sold out' to what sounds or feels like what they have always known, and thus they go for tradition without considering whether such is biblically mandated.

    So the purpose of this poll is a starting point in determining how true are the further presumed associations with one position or the other. I am grouping the positions on the issue into 3 categories: KJV-only, KJV-preferrred, and MV-preferred, because that seems to cover everyone who makes their positions known. [I still have not seen a NASB-only, for example.]
     
  2. Artimaeus

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    KJV Preferred, like the NASB quite well, hymns and modern doctrinely sound songs can be just dandy or they can be junk (Wheeeeeee!, I get to decide what I like.). Prefer coats and ties but I have no problem with a step below, but, not shorts, t-shirts, short or split skirts. I am not talking about "poor" clothes, that's fine. I am talking about "disrespectful" clothes. Divorced men can certainly serve God and the church, just not as pastors or deacons. I prefer the customary English measurements because that is what I grew up with. I will use the metric system if need be.
     
  3. Johnv

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    There are a great many people on thos board who use only the kjv, but by no means require that others do the same.
     
  4. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    I agree again John, and this is getting scary! :D

    I am KJV-preferred.

    I prefer the traditional hymns; but occasionally a modern song will be song as a 'special'. Sometimes we sing a modern scripture verse as praise. (Not a modern scripture; but a modern song using a particular scripture). [​IMG]

    I prefer dress clothes for MYSELF, but don't look down on others who have a different preference. As long as the clothes are clean and not disrespectul, I see nothing wrong with NOT wearing dress clothes (everyone may not have 'dress' clothes).

    I do not believe a divorced man should be a Pastor or Deacon, but there are plenty of other ministries in the church where he can serve God.

    I don't like metric (possibly because I don't understand it). :confused:

    Well, Artimaeus , I don't even know why I typed all of this! I should just have copied and pasted YOUR post and signed my name! [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Sue

    [ February 03, 2003, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: I Am Blessed 16 ]
     
  5. Artimaeus

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    Sue, you sound like a very intelligent and astue person. [​IMG] :cool:
     
  6. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Thank You Artimaeus! [​IMG]

    Isn't it funny; I feel the same way about people who agree with ME! [​IMG]

    Sue
     
  7. Bible Thumpin Biker

    Bible Thumpin Biker
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    I think you would have to consider the circumstances. Isn't divorce like any other sin? Aren't we all sinners? What if the divorce was before the pastor was saved? What if the pastor now has true repentance for his sin?

    ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

    Evg. Dave Wagner
    http://www.praisechrist.org
     
  8. BM

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    First of all; I have seen several churches that have a pastor that has been divorced and has remarried a good christian woman and the Lord is blessing these churches in a mighty way! Second thing is; I'm not sure where I should post this problem but I own a NIV Bible that has Acts 8:37 missing!! [​IMG] To me this is a very important verse. does anyone else have a Bble like this? and what can I do about it? :confused:
     
  9. BrianT

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    I have a KJV that has the verse added. Adding to the word of God is just as wrong as removing. Don't simply assume that it is "missing" from one version, when in fact it may have been "added" to another. Again, we must consider the manuscript evidence, and not rely on what sounds better (because of supporting a doctrine or of familiarity).
     
  10. Anti-Alexandrian

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    Simple, get rid of it and get a KJB..
     
  11. Bible Thumpin Biker

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    To understand why this verse is "missing" or "added" you'll have to start exploring a little deeper on what each translation is based on, which text.

    Here's a start for Textus Receptus on which the King James Version is based:

    http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn/TR.html

    Other texts are Alexandrian and Majority, some info here too:

    http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn/

    Disclaimer: I gave this person's site as an example to show how deep this starts to get. I have not read the entire site and don't necessarilly hold any beliefs on this site.


    ><> ><> ><> ><>
    Evg. Dave
     
  12. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    I think you would have to consider the circumstances. Isn't divorce like any other sin? Aren't we all sinners? What if the divorce was before the pastor was saved? What if the pastor now has true repentance for his sin?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Bible Thumpin Biker;

    I didn't write the requirements for a Pastor and Deacon...It's in the Bible.

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  13. Pete Richert

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    Okay, I am an engineer who uses measurments from 1e-6 meters (micometers), 1e-9 - 1e-12 seconds (nano to picoseconds) and 1e-15 farads (femtofarads). I would NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER EVER go back to that archaic English system. It is simply a matter of having units that are mutliples of a factor of ten, and they make all calculation easier. Take a couple years of physics courses and if you don't love the metric system over the english YOUR CRAZY. I would say in school that 97% of all problems we solved were in the metric system and if they ever gave an example in english I was really anoyed. I had to go look up all the converstion factors because they are all weird like 12, 24, 4.187673, etc. Now I'm in the real world designing mircoprocessors and everything on chip is metric. We have system boards that do use inch trace lengths and believe, it is confusing everybody.

    This all to say that I didn't like checking the box "I would consider other measurements" because the truth is I WOULD NOT consider using English.
     
  14. Alcott

    Alcott
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    Since no one has yet objected to the question about the metric system being in a poll about Bible translations, I am assuming it is understood how the questions relate. And so far this poll is bearing out the expected results. 71% of KJV-onlies say they will not use the metric system, but only 14% of KJV-preferreds and 21% of MV-preferreds say that. This supports the theory that the source of KJV-onlyism is that those who espouse it like familiarity and gthey like to keep within comfort zones, and they think anything new and different is bad because they evaluate it in relation to the familiarities for which they have already made up their minds.
     
  15. Johnv

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    You forgot the choice that reads:

    "Divorced MV pastors should be required to use the metric system" ;)
     
  16. Bible Thumpin Biker

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    Yes, those requirements are in the Bible. Let's take a look:

    1 Timothy 3
    1   This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
    2   A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
    3   Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
    4   One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
    5   (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
    6   Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
    7   Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
    8   Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
    9   Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
    10   And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
    11   Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
    12   Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
    13   For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

    Now what might be read into this? Never a sinner? Some sins are worse than others? What if he stole candy as a child?

    We all are sinners...

    Romans 3:10
    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

    Which sins did Jesus atone for?
    ALL of a believer's sins....

    So, if a Pastor is divorced, repented of his sin, he is now blameless in the eyes of the Lord.

    If he hasn't repented, then I agree with you.

    That's what the Bible says........

    [​IMG]

    &gt;&lt;&gt; &gt;&lt;&gt; &gt;&lt;&gt; &gt;&lt;&gt;

    Evg. Dave
    http://www.praisechrist.org
     
  17. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Sorry; When the Bible says, "the husband of one wife"; I don't think it means one wife at a time. I think it means one wife....period.

    Sue
     
  18. Bible Thumpin Biker

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    Comparing what you have said to scripture, then this Pastor would always have had to be blameless.

    Also, why would the scripture base all the qualifications on the time frame of when the person is seeking the office? In other words... To be temperate, not loving of money...

    Using your resoaning I would have to conclude that if a Pastor was greedy at 10 years old, he should never be a Pastor. (Overseer is the correct term.)

    We'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Think about this, what if he was a repenting homosexual that is now married to one wife?


    :D

    &gt;&lt;&gt; &gt;&lt;&gt; &gt;&lt;&gt; &gt;&lt;&gt;

    Evg. Dave
    http://www.praisechrist.org
     
  19. rsr

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    NET Bible note on I Timothy 3:2 (and the other related passages):

     
  20. Alcott

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    (1) The elder's wife dies. Must he then cease to be an elder?

    (2) If the answer to (1) is 'no,' then must he cease to be an elder if he remarries after his wife dies?

    (3) If the answer to (2) is 'no,' then your phrase, "one wife....period" is not true. Correct?

    (4) If "one wife....period" is not true after all, then you saying an elder must be non-divorced, even though the scripture passage does not say 'never divorced.' Correct?

    (5) Is your position then based on the words of Jesus that remarrying after divorce is adultery-- except for the cause of fornication?
     

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