possession

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by menageriekeeper, Nov 9, 2006.

  1. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
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    Yes, I'm speaking of demon possession.

    Can/do such things actually happen today?

    Were the instances described in the Bible actual possessions or was possession the best way the writers had of describing mental illness or epilepsy?

    If such things can occur today, does the Bible give any instruction on how to recognize such? And how would such be dealt with?

    I am not just curious, but have reasons for my questions and just don't buy the whole exorcism thing practiced by the Catholics.
     
  2. Allan

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    Yes, these still do happen today.

    How can you tell?
    Well not everyone demon possesed is like the the man in the grave yard that Jesus delivered.

    We see a demon possesed man in the synogog when Jesus went into it. He was just like everyone else until Jesus was around.

    The demon possessed woman that followed Paul and his partner around telling evreyone that "these men are of God". So when they spoke and people realized this was true they would have just as much cause to listen to the woman (medium) who told them who they were as they would the men of God themselves. Paul simply rebukes the spirit and it leaves never to return.

    DO NOT buy in the Catholic Version of exorsism nor into this new junk spoken of by many Charismatics. I personally have delt with those who are demon possessed (my older sister being one who was a pagan witch for a time) It is not a battle between good and evil and not about who is stronger but Christ Jesus being both champion and victor and knowing who you are IN Christ. Scripture does speak a word of caution about the whole binding of the strong man parable. If that person does not desire to be set free from that and place themselves under the blood of Christ it would be useless to deal with it as it will leave but if there is no one there when the spirit returns (the Holy Spirit) He will bring 7 others stronger than himself and the state of the person is worse off than at the first. There must be discerment involved but really It is the Name (authority and power) of Christ that cause the demonic to submit and flee. As to how it is done, Focus on Christ and hopefully you will not need to worry about it but if You do have to, Just speak in and with the authority that is IN Christ Jesus against it. You don't need to yell or plead as Christ greater than they. And don't worry about having to pull out a cross or bible for these are objects of whom our Faith is IN. I don't want to go much deeper than that since if you focus on Christ and exhalty Him they will typically be dealt with before you think you need to do something anyway.

    Lift up Christ and demons flee. :)
     
  3. Scarlett O.

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    Being as I do not believe that Christians can be possessed by evil spirits or demons and while I do have epilepsy, no I do not believe that possesion was the best way the writers had of describing mental illness or epilipsy.

    If I did, then I would believe that I, myself, was demon possessed and I would believe that the couple of dozen Christians I know who suffer from depression, bi-polar disorder, etc...were demon possessed also.

    When Jesus cast out these demons, literal and actual demons left these people's bodies.

    Yes, I believe that demons can possess the lost and can oppress Christians. No, I do not believe that this is the same thing as mental illness, epilepsy, nor any other physiological ailment.

    I do not believe in RCC exorcism.

    I believe in calling on the name of Jesus Christ in prayer, either publically or privately to heal people of demonic possession.

    Demonic possession is not always characterized by the same things as people in the bible were characterized by. Demon possessed lost people or demon oppressed Christians can show many other signs such as hatred, suicidal tendancies, a bent towards evil actions, sexual immorality, and many other signs.

    Just because a person shows these signs or the physical signs that you mentioned does not mean that they are demonically possessed or oppressed, but they could be.

    That's why I simply believe in lifting up the name of Jesus Christ on behalf of other people is the way to go.

    Waving an icon (such as a crucifix) or reading religious phrases in Latin is meaningless.

    Exalting the Holy Name of Jesus Christ on behalf of someone in trouble, no matter what is the root cause of their trouble (medical, spiritual, physical, or whatever) is the best way for an individual Christian to open the doors of God's grace and mercy when seeking a spiritual answer to a problem.
     
  4. tinytim

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    Think about this...
    There were doubtless many people in Isreal with mental problems...
    Jesus didn't heal everyone of them...

    He had the gift of discernment to know who had a demon. So He could have walked by a guy with Epilepsy to get to a guy that is Demon possessed. Which is then what the writers would have recorded.

    Also, John writes that there are many other things Jesus did that are not recorded.
     
  5. deacon jd

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    Many of the people in the mental wards and mental hospitals today are demon posessed. Many of the people today that are on anti-depression medication today are either demon posessed or demon oppressed. Not all but many are, and there is no problem to big for Jesus and Jesus alone. It is a poor example when we as Christians have to go to the same psycholgist and take the same medication that a lost a dying world uses to deal with the same problems that they have. Many take pills to go to sleep then they take pills to get up and deal with life what a pitiful example. Remember King Asa. He sought to the physicians instead of God and it costed him his life. God is the answer to both demon opression and demon posession just as he has always been.
     
  6. Baptist Believer

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    Yes.


    They were actually demonized. I don't think that the biblical writers were talking about the medical condition of epilepsy.


    Yes. I don't have time to go into all the details, but some basic ways to distinquish the difference have to do with whether or not the person in question:
    1.) Knows languages or information that they did not know before.
    2.) Is very hostile to things of God.
    3.) Has a background in occultic practices.
    4.) Has physical manifestations of demonic activity occuring within the proximity of the person or ministers (moving objects, apparitions, physical harrassment, unexplained noises, etc.)

    As the Spirit leads. We should not necessarily free people from demonic influence unless they are willing to be a disciple of Christ. Things could easily get worse for them.


    The Roman Catholic rites of exorcism are startlingly ineffective compared to the way that the New Testament depicts exorcism. Jesus and Paul commanded the demons and they responded to their authority in Christ. Modern-day believers have the same capability if they are empowered and led by the Spirit.

    And yes, I have some experience dealing with explicit manifestations of the demonic.
     
    #6 Baptist Believer, Nov 9, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2006
  7. Scarlett O.

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    Well, I don't think we need to hijack this thread, but I for one say "Thank God" for medications.
     
  8. donnA

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    No where does scripture condemn the use of medications. Thsi is legalism at it tip top best.
     
  9. standingfirminChrist

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    Not sure about that donna.

    It may not 'out and out' say it in those exact words, but the Bible does say 'Whatsoever is not of faith, is sin.'

    If we take that verse literally, then to turn to medications and psychiatrists instead of Christ to cure one's ailments, then it is hight possible that deacon's quote is a legit concern.
     
  10. npetreley

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    I don't get your reasoning here. Jesus didn't heal everyone, period. That says nothing about why people had mental or physical problems. And Jesus healed people of physical ailments that He attributed to the devil (not necessarily possession, but still the work of the devil). Note also that Jesus didn't heal only those people who asked for it. He healed people who didn't ask, too. There are too many inconsistencies in what we know to draw any conclusions about why Jesus healed one person and not another.
     
    #10 npetreley, Nov 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2006
  11. menageriekeeper

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    No, no, no! I absolutely don't want this thread to dissolve into a discussion of medicine and mental illness. Eventually we might have to touch on it, but right now I just want to focus on possession.

    I also believe that a saved person can only be oppressed and not possessed. The person in question is not saved as far as can be determined and would not discuss spiritual issue when they were able to. That brings me to another question: why would a demon bother to possess a person?
     
  12. Scarlett O.

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    To use them as an agent of evil....rape, murder, blasphemy, hatred. To keep them from hearing and understanding the truth of the gospel. The devil knows that he loses in the end. God told him so in the gardern.

    But the devil is going to make sure that he causes grief untold before his demise and that he takes as many people as he can with him to the pit.
     
  13. deacon jd

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    Did I say it did? It is a sin to trust medication more than God and to trust the doctor more than God.
     
    #13 deacon jd, Nov 9, 2006
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  14. deacon jd

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    Is all medication from God?
     
  15. menageriekeeper

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    Stop!!!

    No more medication talk.


    Well, one exception: If a person is truely possessed, is/can the demon within be affected by what the person injests (be it medications, alcolhol or drugs)?

    More of interest however, do demons ever leave a person once they've taken possession, what happens if the possessed person dies and how much havoc can a possessed person cause to Christian folks around them? (whether or not the possession is recognized)
     
    #15 menageriekeeper, Nov 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2006
  16. Brother Bob

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    Yea, that is why I say all sin is not the same that Jesus said with this kind it takes much prayer and fasting when His Apostles failed to get the demons out of the man. If all sin were the same then the same prayer and repentance would take care of all.
     
  17. Allan

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    Well the "...this kind cometh not out but by prayer and fasting..." IMO is speaking about Faith (stronger or greater Faith). Since Jesus states
    The object of verse 21 is verse 20 dealing with belief (active faith).

    Are we to allow a person to be demon possessed while we go and fast (for a day - or weeks) and pray, to come back and hopefully that demon has not killed that person by then??

    This is about being in a right releationship with God, and understanding His power and authority, and our position within it. By understanding this we will know the enimies of Christs authority as powerless and obedient to the Living God because it is not that we "know" about it but that we WALK in it!
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    Means notwithstanding. Legal talk saying "forget what I just said".
    He don't mean forget it just that it don't apply in this case. Or what they were using was not enough in this case.
     
    #18 Brother Bob, Nov 9, 2006
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  19. Allan

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    Bob,
    You are not going to stand by such silly wording are you??
    That Jesus told the disciples to forget about them and their unbelief and how faith works, but instead just pray and fast to get the demon out.

    You understanding of the word "Howbeit" is not accurate anyway.
    The 'Howbeit' states the object of "this kind" is in direct correlation to the preceding verse. It is NOT never mind what I said but "Therefore" or in relation to what I just said. The object is Faith and not demons for Jesus was speaking of their unbelief and not the spirit He just cast out.
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    Go back and reread the post Allan
     

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