Possible Attack of Freedom of Religion by the Obama Administration

Perhaps because we have forgotten what the old hymns by Christians such as Isaac Watts say, such as:

"Must I be carried to the skies
on flowery beds of ease,
while others fought to win the prize,
and sailed through bloody seas?

...

Sure I must fight, if I would reign;
increase my courage, Lord.
I'll bear the toil, endure the pain,
supported by Thy word."



I think that nowadays lots of Christians in the United States are way more interested in political deliverance and relying on government protection instead of being interested in spiritual deliverance and relying on God's protection.

 

Where do we find that right in scripture?

 

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An excellent post. Thank you.

 

Apparently God said you have a right to chase after happiness, nothing about a right to catch it.

 

Haven't read the article yet; that's next. Just had to chime in about RAdam & Annsi's posts:

Um...no, it's not.

My basis for agreeing with Ken on this (and agreeing with Ken is hard to do ): I spent a year in Afghanistan as a military mentor/advisor. My job was to interact with both Afghans and Afghan interpreters on nearly a daily basis.

I now love chai (not that junk they sell in Starbuck's and call chai, but the real stuff) and qabali (a rice dish; I'm finally getting the hang of how to make it. Tricky part is the meat.).

BUT the biggest thing I learned about Muslims, is that they're just like Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostals, and everyone else. Some of the Afghans I interacted with said prayers before everything they did. Some of them went to mosque on Friday, and that was about it. One guy was the kind that, once he considered you a friend, he'd show you which drawer in his desk he kept the Scotch in, and which satellite TV channel you could watch porn. And the internet? Well, for a country that has a 70% illiteracy rate, you give them internet access and you'll start finding downloaded videos of stuff that I shall refrain from talking about.

Point is: It's been my experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan that people are the same everywhere, with the same levels of dedication to religion, politics, and just about everything else. The differences come when you start talking about where and how they were raised (i.e., cultural).

 

Interesting article. Also interesting that Nina Shea's words sound similar to wording that can be found in the UN convention on the rights of the child.

 

Don, that's really interesting. Just out of curiosity, what are some of the more interesting aspects of Afghan culture that you learned while you were there?

 

I don't actually think that's the case. In fact, we're called to serve without regard to social and political climate.

 

Beautifully stated. And thanks for the Watts hymn.

Are there no foes for me to face?
Must I not stem the flood?
Is this vile world a friend to grace,
To help me on to God?

 

Where do you find a Bible basis for Christians fighting for political freedom?

I don't understand the relationship between being created in God's image and being promised life. Christians have been martyred all through history.

Our liberty is only in Christ. That exists no matter what the political climate. This has no connexion to political liberty.

'Joy unspeakable and full of glory' comes in serving God no matter what our circumstances. Often through history God has been glorified through the worst of persecutions. For an example might I suggest you look up the Edict of Toleration of 311 of which Will Durant writes, '"There is no greater drama in human record than the sight of a few Christians, scorned or oppressed by a succession of emperors, bearing all trials with a fierce tenacity, multiplying quietly, building order while their enemies generated chaos, fighting the sword with the word, brutality with hope, and at last defeating the strongest state that history has known. Caesar and Christ had met in the arena, and Christ had won.'

The idea of 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' is a result of 18th century rationalism. It is not a Bible based concept. We have become so used to being spoiled believers that we forget that only a tiny minority of the church has ever lived under a government which protects them. The norm in oppression, opposition, and persecution.

Why do we expect favour when the Bible tells is that 'those who live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution?'

God's pleasures? Since when has the church lived for pleasure? Is not God pleased when His people glorify him in struggles?

 

Thank you for your polite and reasonable reply.

My point it this, God never promised or implied that we had any right to expect fair treatment from the state. That is not the norm. The US, and indeed most of the West, has grown accustomed to what is not normal for the church throughout world history. We should not be at all surprised when the world hates us. Jesus said they would.

The church has historically weakened under government favour and strengthened under opposition. That is why I am not too concerned about how the state sees or treats us.

We will carry on. We will endure. And we might just be stronger.

As was said of Israel in Egypt - 'The more they afflicted them the more they multiplied and grew.'

 

Agreed, as long as we do so with the dignity and respect toward authority that God directs in His word.

 

Any pressure, actual or only in theory, from any administration on anyone's religious freedom is something we should be concerned about in a very serious way.

 

The *most* interesting one I learned was: We Americans go over there thinking that the Afghans actually need our help, that we need to teach them how to do everything.

Case 1: I was involved in a session to plan for the upcoming winter; we discussed the different things that we needed to talk to the Afghans about in order to get ready for the cold weather. When I took that list to the Afghan I was working with, he proceeded to add to the list with things we Americans don't normally consider (for example, how many of us still use car batteries that require changing of the water or acid content?). I went back to the original session with the question: Why aren't we asking the people who have lived here their entire lives what to do about getting ready for winter?

Case 2: The Afghan I worked with needed some equipment to get ready for the elections last year. Not understanding our procurement rules and laws, he had waited until the last minute to ask me. I let him know that I could order the items he needed, but it would be a minimum of 30 days before they arrived. The next day when we met, he let me know that he'd figured out a way to get it on his own.

See, the analogy is this: If I offer to buy you a soda and french fries, are you going to say no? (you might out of politeness, but work with me here, okay?) Most of will say "thank you." And that's exactly what the Afghans are doing. It's not that they can't do things for themselves; it's why should they, when we're so ready and willing to pay for and do it for them?

Other than that, we got a lot of requests from Afghans for immigration assistance. Some of them want to come to America and get educated, and take it back to their country. Some of them simply see America as a better place to live.