prayer in schools

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Heavenbound01, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. Heavenbound01

    Heavenbound01
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    what do you think about them taking prayer out of schools? my opinion is that it was the worst thing they could have done. lord knows we need it with all the shootings going on in school.
     
  2. rsr

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    Prayer is still allowed in schools; state-sponsored prayer is not.

    I would rather trust my child's religious education to my family and my church than to the school.

    In addition, if the state — through the administration and teachers — can prescribe prayer, then it can be something that I would find either insipid, heretical or worse.
     
  3. Heavenbound01

    Heavenbound01
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    rsr,
    i agree with you there rsr. In SC,we have resorted to a moment of silence, which is better than nothing i guess, but every state in the us should allow prayer. I am pretty sure that in sc,prayer is not allowed in schools. I may be wrong. guess i should look in to it to be positive.
     
  4. Clint Kritzer

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    Quite right and I couldn't agree more.

    The "rumor" that children can no longer pray in schools in the US is false. The Supreme Court has repeatedly protected the rights of prayer as an element of free speech protected as a basic tenant of our civil liberty. When Christians take the "sky is falling" attitude about School prayer being banned, they are doing the work of the anti-theists for them.

    Here's a site that gives a fairly thoruogh overview of exactly what liberties and stipulations have been protected and mandated:

    http://www.aclj.org/issues/issues_stdnt_rights_index.asp
     
  5. rsr

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    I am in favor of noncoerced prayer. Prescribed or coerced prayer, to me, is at best worthless and at worst harmful.

    Public schools, like most bureaucracies, are loathe to allow anything that might, just might, give them some trouble somewhere. Many jump on it like a duck on a june bug without any knowledge of what the Supreme Court actually said.

    Guidance on Constitutionally Protected Prayer in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools

    (Sorry, Clint; I was editing when you posted. Excellent resources you listed.)
     
  6. Heavenbound01

    Heavenbound01
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    the sky is falling attitude???? christians doing atheists work for them??? what does that mean???
     
  7. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer
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    It is in reference to a common over reaction displayed by many Christians when they hear that there has been some ruling that they interpret as a ban on school prayer. It is, sadly, an extremely common phenomenon among the extreme religious right in this nation and it quickly spreads throughout the Christian community.

    The removal of mandatory prayer from public schools was actually a very favorable decision, IMO. For example, how would the average Baptist feel if their child came home from school and said, "I learned a new prayer from my teacher today today! It goes :Hail, Mary, mother of God..." or even worse, "All praise to Allah..." Since the state can not force anyone to accept any one religion, the type of prayer would be subject to the one praying. The worst case scenario, to my thinking, would be an atheist praying, basing my opinion on John 8:42-44.

    But my point is that we as Christians in the US need to understand our rights rather than getting our information from the rumor mill. There are those who WOULD like to see prayer abolished from school - the non-theists. When we tell our children that they can not pray in school, we have lost the battle, even though we have repeatedly won in court. We are doing the work of the opposition for them, it's that simple.

    Basically, the litmus test is that prayer is allowed as long as any other free speech is allowed. A child can not talk out loud during a test, therefore a child can not pray out loud during a test. A child CAN talk in the hall between classes, therefore a child can pray between classes. A child can wear religious clothing as long as there is no uniform or dress policy that requires a uniform. If all jewelry is forbidden, then a child can not wear a cross. If jewelry is allowed, the child CAN wear a cross. Children can also carry Bibles (as long as extracuricular literature is allowed), have Bible clubs (as long as other clubs are allowed), distribute Christian literature, talk about Christ, give credit to God in a valedictorian speech, peacefully gather in events such as the "meet me at the pole" gathering, say grace alone or in groups before lunch, and a myriad of other religous expressions as long as it is student initiated and not mandatory. We still have many more rights than the reactionaries would have us believe.

    http://www.rmfc.org/fs/fs0049.html
     
  8. Kiffin

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    I think the Prayer in Schools debate is much to do about nothing. Kids can and do pray in School. What is forbidden is School sponsored prayer which would lead us to either a Generic Government prayer to a Generic God or Christians kids being forced to listen to Buddhist prayers, Hindu prayers, Muslim prayers etc....It is not the Government schools job to Spiritually nurture children (Do we really want that?!??). That is the job of the Church and parents. I wonder how many Christian parents pray with their children or even teach them to pray?
     
  9. Heavenbound01

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    i agree we shouldnt jump to conclusions,but christians should be on our toes when it comes to stuff like this because the way the world is going now,pretty soon god will be out of everything and i am ready and willing to fight for what i believe is right. arn't you?
     
  10. Heavenbound01

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    well i have two small children and i most definitely teach them how to pray. any christian should. I teach my daughters sunday school class and i teach them to pray also. children are monkey see monkey do, and if they see a christian praying then they might do the same.
     
  11. rsr

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    "children are monkey see monkey do,"

    Indeed. All the more reason for us to be careful about what government-sanctioned religious utterances we want them exposed to.
     
  12. gb93433

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    We never had public prayers in the schools I attended. It is not about public prayers but about obedience. Daniel was told not to pray but he did anyway. He knew God. Just because there are not public prayers in schools does nothing about my knowing God. When I taught school God gave me some great opportunities to share my faith with students. God always allows us to pray. Nobody can stop my God and me praying to Him.

    Some of the strongest Christians today grew up in countries under communist rule and atheism.
     
  13. Marcia

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    If we have prayers said aloud in the schools, they will have to allow prayers of all faiths. In some areas (like where I live), we will then have prayers from Hindus, Wiccans, New Agers, Muslims, Mormons, etc. in the schools. In fact, those groups together easily outnumber the Christians in the county where I live.

    Or we will just have a bland prayer to some kind of higher power without mentioning the name of Jesus.
     
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Perfect post Marcia - what is good for one is good for all and and if you won't object to a witch offering up a prayer in school than by all means lets bring prayers back.

    Prayer is a personal matter. Does anyone know of a child being suspended or expelled for a silent, personal prayer? If so, then THAT is a problem. Even then students of all faiths or no faith should then be permitted to express it in school as well.

    For too long Christians in America have depended on the state to protect and support their belief system. If there truly is a First Amendment than it applies to all. Otherwise, lets repeal it since the Founding Fathers obviously did not know what they were doing :rolleyes: .
     
  15. Heavenbound01

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    gb,marcia,
    you both make good points,and i see where you are coming from!!! [​IMG]
     
  16. amixedupmom

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    One can pray to onesself when it's needed. And trust me there is still praying in school. Before any test is usually when most of the praying is done. You might be able to stop outloud prayer, but no one can ever stop the praying on the inside. And most of the time that is what counts !!!

    God Bless
     

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