Praying to Mary

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Acts 1:8, Dec 24, 2002.

  1. Acts 1:8

    Acts 1:8
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    This has always been a topic that interests me...It seems fitting that the RC would have its members pray to Mary because like other aspects of RC, the religion always places a division between God and man.

    People pray to mary, despite there being no biblical evidence or teaching of anyone correctly praying to God the Father. Despite the division between God and man being removed when Christ was crucified symbolized by the veil in the temple being torn in two, Catholics to thier own defeat have put a replacement veil back up in its place.

    Instead of talking to God the Father, they pray to Mary, and instead of confessing thier sins to the one whom they have offended (God) they instead confess them to thier "Fathers" - Catholic priests. Kind of funny how the Bible just spells it out in simply black and white.

    1 Timothy 2:5
    For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

    Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

    [ December 24, 2002, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: AdoptedByGod ]
     
  2. CatholicConvert

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    Okay. Let's see how brilliant you are.

    WHAT kind of mediator is Christ? Your answer please. How does He mediate and what is His position.

    And yes, I am laying a trap for you, so be careful with your answer.
     
  3. Acts 1:8

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    Here is my answer. Read Carefully.

    For me Christ as mediator is the following:

    Hebrews 6:19-20
    We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

    And he is so much more to me...He's the perfect lamb of God who negotiated my release from sin by purchasing me with his blood.

    To me, he's an end to the never-ending sacrifices that the Jews had to continually offer to cover thier sins. Sound familiar? Catholics still do this each time the confess thier sins to a priest...Sadly, they continue to confess thier sins to other humans over and over again, never realizing that Christ is thier ready to mediate
    Thier release from sin forever!

    Hebrews 7:27
    Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

    Sound familiar? There's hope!

    1 Peter 3:18
    For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit

    Praise God, Jesus Christ is my personal mediator and savior!

    So tell me What kind of mediator is Christ for you? What is His position in your life? I'm not laying a trap for you but do be careful with your answer.

    [ December 24, 2002, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: AdoptedByGod ]
     
  4. DanPC

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    prayers to Mary--Catholics ask for Mary's intercession for the same reason that others ask fellow Christians to intercede "the fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful." James 5:16
    Because Jesus is the one mediator between heaven and earth, we intercede for one antoher as members of Christ's body. If fellow sainst praying for us on eath do not destroy Christ's role as the one mediator, neither do glorified saints praying for us in heaven.

    Mt 23-9--See Acts 7:2 as Paul calls Abraham our father in faith. Also see Acts 22:1 in 1 Cor 4:14-15 Paul calls the Corinthians "my beloved children..for I became your <b> father </b> in Christ Jesus through the Gospel."

    As for confessing sins to God through a priest--se John 20:19-23. Jesus breathed on the Apostles-- go back to Gen 2:7 to see that breathing involves giving life--in this case life giving power to forgive sins on His behalf. 2 Cor 5:17-20 Paul explains how the Apostles are ambassadors of Christ's work of reconciliation.
    James 5:13-16 sins of sick forgiven in sacrament of annointing but he specifies that presbyters (preists) must be called.
     
  5. IlovetheBible

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    Mary is blessed among woman- the Bible tells us this.

    She finds favor in God's eyes- the Bible tells us this too.

    She deserves our respect, naturally, for she watched her Son crucified.

    Her obedience makes our salvation possible, because she gave birth to the Savior- the Bible tells us this.

    She however does not save us with Christ. The Bible speaks nothing of this.

    The Bible also does not teach that she is the queen of heaven. The church is the bride of Christ.

    Mary is not worthy of our worship, she should not be bowed down to.

    The idea of asking Mary for intercession- to go to Christ on our behalf, as in wedding party, is not persay wrong in theory, accept that the Bible does not teach that those who are in heaven are able to do that.
     
  6. DHK

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    I sinned. Straightway, posthaste; Satan fled,
    Before the presence of the most High God,
    And laid a railing accusation there, He said:
    This soul (this thing of clay and sod) hath sinned!
    And I demand his death! Is Justice dead?
    Send now this guilty sinner to his doom!
    And thus he did accuse me day and night.
    And every word he spoke was true.

    Then One arose from God's right hand,
    Before whose angels veiled their eyes.
    He said: But wait! Suppose
    His guilt were placed on me,
    And that I paid the penalty.
    Behold my hands, my feet, my side.
    It was for him, I lived, and died,
    That he might be forgiven.
    Then Satan fled away. For well he knew,
    Every word my Saviour spoke was true.

    Christ is my Advocate, my Mediator.
    1Tim.2:5; 1John 2:1,2; Rev.12:10,11
    DHK
     
  7. SolaScriptura in 2003

    SolaScriptura in 2003
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    (Mark 3:21 NNAS) When His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, "He has lost His senses."

    (Mark 3:32-35 NNAS) A crowd was sitting around Him, and they said^ to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You." {33} Answering them, He said^, "Who are My mother and My brothers?" {34} Looking about at those who were sitting around Him, He said^, "Behold My mother and My brothers! {35} "For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother."

    It is interesting that when Jesus' mother & brothers came to seize him, and some of his disciples saw them and said "Your mother and brothers are outside," when he made the discourse about "whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother," he did not include "father" but only "brother and sister and mother."
     
  8. Netcurtains3

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    "Jesus's Brothers"
    I think this phrase shows the weakness in some peoples thinking.
    There is no word of Cousin in the language of the bible so they use Brother.
    How do I know Jesus had no brothers?
    Simple when he was on the Cross he told his Mum to live with St John - if Jesus actually had bothers and sisters his mum would have lived with them. Either St John and Mary Magdalene were his bother and sister or he had none.

    Deductive reasoning my dear Watson.

    Catholics Rule!

    Net.
     
  9. Netcurtains3

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    Two Views on Mary as defined by "the beatles"
    1) Catholic:
    "
    When I find myself in times of trouble
    Mother Mary comes to me
    Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
    And in my hour of darkness
    She is standing right in front of me
    Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
    Let it be, let it be
    Let it be, let it be.
    Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.
    And when the broken hearted people
    Living in the world agree,
    There will be an answer, let it be.
    For though they may be parted there is
    Still a chance that they will see
    There will be an answer, let it be.

    Refrain

    Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.
    And when the night is cloudy,
    There is still a light that shines on me,
    Shine on till tomorrow, let it be.
    I wake up to the sound of music
    Mother Mary comes to me
    Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

    Refrain

    Whisper words of wisdom, let it be
    "

    2) Protestant:
    "
    Lady Madonna, children at your feet.
    Wonder how you manage to make ends meet.
    Who finds the money? When you pay the rent?
    Did you think that money was heaven sent?

    Friday night arrives without a suitcase.
    Sunday morning creep in like a nun.
    Monday's child has learned to tie his bootlace.
    See how they run.

    Lady Madonna, baby at your breast.
    Wonder how you manage to feed the rest.

    See how they run.
    Lady Madonna, lying on the bed,
    Listen to the music playing in your head.

    Tuesday afternoon is never ending.
    Wednesday morning papers didn't come.
    Thursday night you stockings needed mending.
    See how they run.

    Lady Madonna, children at your feet.
    Wonder how you manage to make ends meet.
    "
     
  10. blackbird

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    CatholicConvert--
    Refering to your idea of layin' a trap---refering to the Lord Jesus Christ as mediator??

    Friend, God Almighty lays down no traps--He lays down truth!! There is one God and one Mediator between God and man, the Man Jesus Christ--all other prayers to Mary, Saint this and that, Mother this and that---fall on deaf ears! Mary "once lived"---but Jesus Christ "Ever lives" to make intercession for us!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  11. blackbird

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    And any trap you can set for me---why, that ain't gonna throw me off none---your trap ain't no match for the truth! The truth will just come along and set me free from your trap---doesn't matter how many traps you set---you'll run out of traps before I run out of truth!!!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  12. Bro. Curtis

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    Nice, Net Curtains. I often get my Bible theology from the Beatles :rolleyes:

    The Beatles were so anti-christian, that it's stupid to even talk about it. Good music, bad doctrine.

    2 out of 4 Beatles are most likely burning in Hell. Not judging them, merely speculation based on Bible study.
     
  13. Bible-belted

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    When you don't have truth, then sophistry will have to do. Col. 2:8
     
  14. Netcurtains3

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    Hi,
    If "eye witness" counts for more then hearsay then doesn't that mean Yeshua's final words on the Cross in John's Gospel counts for more then Yeshua's final words in the other Gospels? If this is so doesn't that mean some parts of the bible are more gospel then others?
     
  15. Bible-belted

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    Well, no. For one thing ALL of the gospels are "hearsay" to us. Especially Luke. Chck out the intro to that gospel.

    The fact is that theologically, authority (what it seems you mean when asking about what "counts") is a function of inspiration by God. And all Scripture is God breathed. There is no hint that some is "more God-breathed" than others.
     
  16. Netcurtains3

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    Hi Bro Curtis,
    Its just short-hand instead of long boring threads of endless bible quotes that often seem to meander in a meaningless direction.

    In 1964 - at the height of "Love & Peace" and the beatles the birth rate in the UK jumped to 2.93 Children per female - the highest its ever been since records began (1920s) - the 1960s "baby boom". The Beatles were not saints but I hope and suspect in the existance of pergotary (not sure how you spell it but I think it exists). Theorectically, if those "baby-boomers" go to heaven, this will mean something of God happened in the 1960s.

    I also remember singing in my Catholic Church at the time something deeply protestant:
    "
    We shall overcome,
    We shall overcome,
    We shall overcome someday,
    Oh, deep in my heart, I do believe,
    We shall overcome someday.
    "
    I loved it - great tune!

    [ December 24, 2002, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Netcurtains3 ]
     
  17. Bro. Curtis

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    Purgatory. As in to purge.

    But I don't believe in purgatory, for it is absent in the Bible.

    I do listen to the Beatles, I at one time thought they were the best. But as I grow older and older, I find myself going back in time, and listening to the old stuff. My favorite recordings now come from the 30's and 40's, when acoustic instruments were circled around one microphone, and the lead singer, or instrumentalist would just take a step closer to the mike. You can't replace the energy, or spontenaity of those recordings.

    Listen to "Great Speckled Bird" by the Monroe Brothers. Or "Moonglow" by Django Reindhart and Stephan Grapelli. I lament over the lost art of live recording.

    Sometimes the Beatles were not even in the same town when they recorded. They pieced together the records, a little at a time. (They stole this idea from Brian Wilson, who stole it from Les Paul)

    I'm not saying that they didn't make great music, but a studio nowadays can make even Cher sound good.

    Anyhoodilly, since I don't consider myself protestant, I reject both of the Beatles songs about Mary, and I return the subject back over to her. ;)
     
  18. BobRyan

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    No that is not true. Even the RCC denies that by saying that you can ONLY pray to dead saints not living ones. You can not refer to any living person yo know as "Queen of the Universe" or "Coredemptrix with Christ" or "All Powerful".

    Prayers to the dead (as in what 1Thess 4 calls "The DEAD in Christ") are made among RCs for the same reason they are made among Hindus - ancestor worship in the form of images, incense, prayers before an image that REPRESENTS the dead person being prayed to but is NOT that person (the Hindu definition).

    Catholics "make deals" with the dead in prayer -- "IF you will GRANT me my wish THEN I will recruit others to devotion to YOU".

    It is a wonderful system where the living "go to the dead" for counsel, wisdom, miracles, answers to prayer etc but like all good Hindus - they do not expect "a conversation".

    However WHEN they are lucky enough to also GET a conversation (As in the spiritist medium conversing with Samuel) they leap at that as a golden example of what they would ultimately like to be doing - conversing interactively with the dead. You will even see them appeal to that story.

    But back to the point above - No the RCC does not allow you to pray to the person in the pew next to you - or someone living half a content away.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. Bro. Curtis

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    Does the Bible specifically ask for us to offer prayers to Mary ?
     
  20. Netcurtains3

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    Hi Bro. Curtis,
    To be honest I'm not much of a music buff. I do like many of the Andrew Lloyd Webber stuff and David Bowie. I like to listen to "Pie Jesu" (Sarah Brightman?) while I have a cup of coffee - it lasts 3 minutes.

    Mary Stuff. I'm not a Bible-ologist, I'm a Christian. I do note that the biggest influence on a child are parents. Imagine if Mary bought up Jesus as a Satanist? Or if Mary bought up Jesus as a "Greek" kid (as many Jews at the time did)?
    It appears that Joseph died early on in Jesus's life. Jesus and Mary alone against the world. The Big three: Mary (Jesus's Mother), John and Mary Magdeline (spelling?) - They all lived together after Jesus ascended.
     

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