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Pre-1611 references/scriptures available?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by JeffM, May 21, 2004.

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  1. JeffM

    JeffM New Member

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    I like to listen to Michael Medved on the radio.

    Though Jewish, he stands firm and supports Christians, Christianity and publically declares almost daily that America was once a Christian nation, founded by Chistians on Christian principles.

    Several years ago I caught just the end of a discussion he was having with a caller. All I remember him saying is the account of Adams and Eves fall is different in the Torah than what is written in the Christian Bible (Michael made a quick reference to the serpent not really being a serpent in the Torah, then he moved on to the next caller).

    This has always intrigued me since then, especially now since I've joined this forum and seen the many debates/arguments about the different Bible translations.

    I've owned several different Bibles over the years but now I am comfortable with the KJV. I like the language of it.

    Is there anything I can reference that was written before the 1611 Bible? What did people use for 1611 years prior? Was it just the spoken word? What did the KJ translators translate from?

    Also, can anyone give anymore insight to what Michael was saying regarding the Jewish account of the fall of man in the Garden?

    Thanks!
     
    #1 JeffM, May 21, 2004
  2. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    There is John Wyclif's Bible (ed.1395)

    Here is John 3:16 from this Bible:

    For God louede so the world, that he yaf his `oon bigetun sone, that ech man that bileueth in him perische not, but haue euerlastynge lijf.

    You can find it online at the following URL:

    http://www.sbible.boom.ru/wyc/wycle.htm
     
    #2 JGrubbs, May 21, 2004
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Jeff - the question of creation account differences goes back to various other Jewish writings, not the text of the OT. The bible text (Dead Sea Scrolls, Septuagint, Tenach and the Masoretic Text from which all English Old Testaments are translated) will all basically agree.

    As for Bibles before 1611? Simple summary (others will give more detail)

    The universal language at the time of the NT was Greek, so we have thousands of Greek manuscripts that were read and studied.

    When the language shifted in most of Europe and North Africa to Latin, Hieronymous (Jerome) translated the Greek into a common Latin Bible that was used for 1000 years!

    As the reformation affected various nations, each sought to have bibles translated into their own native vernacular so everyone could read it. Luther did one in German, etc.

    In English we have a rich tradition from Wycliff and Tyndale, Matthews and Coverdale, all many years before James authorized a translation in 1611.

    And many, many since.
     
    #3 Dr. Bob, May 21, 2004
  4. JGrubbs

    JGrubbs New Member

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    #4 JGrubbs, May 21, 2004
  5. JeffM

    JeffM New Member

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    Thanks!

    I am going to ask this next question in hopes it won't flair up another debate......here goes...

    Was the KJV translated faithfully from the old Greek and Hebrew manuscripts as I've been told?

    I've read somewhere that the NIV is more of a faithful translation.

    PLEASE DON'T START ANOTHER DEBATE :D
     
    #5 JeffM, May 21, 2004
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Then don't ask a question so "loaded" that a debate is SURE to ensue! [​IMG]

    Yes. The AV1611 was faithfully translated from Greek/Hebrew. It used (1) a blend of Greek texts for a base and (2) a principle of "formal equivalence" - trying to give a word-for-word English to the Greek/Hebrew.

    Yes. The NIV was faithfully translated from Greek/Hebrew. It used (1) a different blend of Greek texts for a base and (2) a principle of "dynamic equivalence" - trying to give a thought-for-thought English to the Greek/Hebrew.

    The result are apples/oranges and should not be compared! Accepting the "text" and accepting the "method" of translating is a matter of personal preference.

    So those who follow the AV prefer the Greek texts and formal translating; those who follow the NIV prefer those Greek texts and dynamic translating.

    It is NOT a matter of "right" or "wrong". Just different as apples and oranges.
     
    #6 Dr. Bob, May 21, 2004
  7. JeffM

    JeffM New Member

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    Point taken Bro. Bob! Didn't mean for it to be loaded, but it was.

    Thank you, you answered my question! Don't need to debate the two translations folks.
     
    #7 JeffM, May 21, 2004
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Jeff M,

    The AV 1611's immediate predecessor was the Geneva Bible, first printed in 1560. It was released in several successive editions as was the AV, the last one being in 1599. The GB was the first English BV brought to what's now the USA.

    Comparing the GB to the AV or NIV is as comparing apples, oranges, & pears.

    Here's a link to perhaps the best online copy of the 1599 GB:http://www.genevabible.org/

    Seeing these different BVs is one reason we don't believe any one-version-Onlyism doctrines, KJV or otherwise.
     
    #8 robycop3, May 21, 2004
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    It is perhaps that the "serpent" in Genesis 3:1 before the fall and curse is not a reptile "going on its belly" but a "beast of the field" perhaps even a mammal. Not only that it was "the most subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made". So intelligent that it did not seem to surprise Eve that it spoke!

    HankD
     
    #9 HankD, May 21, 2004
  10. Trotter

    Trotter <img src =/6412.jpg>

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    E-sword offers the Geneva Bible as a free downlaod, as well.

    E-sword Bible Page

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
    #10 Trotter, May 22, 2004
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Thanks for the good links, Trotter!
     
    #11 Dr. Bob, May 23, 2004
  12. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

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    For anyone who is interested, check out StudyLight.org for what is probably the most complete selection of pre-KJV Bibles online.
     
    #12 Keith M, May 31, 2004
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