Pre-Emptive Self Defense

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Dr. Bob, Nov 27, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    In June 1967, the Israelis had been provoked, attacked by infiltrating terrorists, had fear of the certain calamity awaiting from Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

    They unleashed the 6-Day war, which is hailed today as one of the most successful "pre-emptive self-defense" attacks.

    Interesting that the Bush administration is now using that to describe our attack on Iraq.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Yeah. Maybe we're in for a perpetual state of war like Israel has. [​IMG]
     
  3. Major B

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    Israel is in a perpetual state of war because she is surrounded by enemies who want to destroy her and kill all of her people.

    Given the weapons and military technology available today, pre-emption is about survival. Once upon a time, nations could wait until war loomed, then spend months getting ready. Not today. War is "come as you are," and, given the power and lethality of available weapons, waiting until you are attacked may mean foreiting any chance of survival.
     
  4. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Who do you figure we should attack next?
     
  5. Major B

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    No one until we are finished with what we have started. After that, I'm thinking The People's Republic of Vermont.
     
  6. Matt Black

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    I think it was Frederick the Great who was the first to use the pre-emptive strike doctrine (wlthough I suspect it was Machiavelli who invented it) when he attacked Saxony in 1756, precipiating the Seven Years' War (without which the Mississipi would still be French BTW :eek: ). According to the doctrine, it is only justified if there is a demonstrable threat that must be eliminated by such a strike. By this token, the Israeli wiping out of the Egyptian airforce on the morning of 5th June 1967 was justified; Bush and Blair OTOH are on much shakier ground...

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  7. Daisy

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    Venezuela!
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Agree. Lost a couple of close classmates in the 67 war (my graduating class was half Jewish and a number went to volunteer to fight in Israel, NOT Vietnam).

    Am disappointed personally is starting with Iraq before we were finished in Afghanistan et al.
     
  9. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Scary thing is, all it would take would be a few liars.
     
  10. ChurchBoy

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    The problem in the fight against terrorism is that we are not fighting one nation or a group of nations but a movement that is not confined to national borders. Almost all of history of warfare is fought from the idea of combative nations. How do we fight a movement?
     
  11. Clay Knick

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    It seems to be that we need a new statement
    on war and Christian ethics given the rise
    of terrorism. Minds greater than mine
    need to work on this and come up with a
    new statement.

    Clay
     
  12. Ignazio_er

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    Oh my gosh, can I believe what I am reading? What paranoia! When was the last time we didn't spend months getting ready for war? Do you suppose dubwa woke up one morning last spring and decided to invade Iraq without preparing? Have you ever read about something called the Soviet Union in your Ancient History class? And you're worried about the "military technology" coming from the mideast. What a joke.

    Hey, here's another little incident you probably never heard about: World War II. How many months notice did we have before the Japanese decimated the Pacific fleet?

    How does that fit into your neat little world theories about war today and war yesterday?
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

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    Like we did back in the old days when we went to the Barbary Coast to fight pirates, who a lot like terrorists today, operate with a rogue attitude, without borders. We fought the countries that harbored them. There was no immediate threat to our homeland, but a way of life was at stake.

    Like dubya said, you are either for us, or against us. I just wish he could back it up. Countries like Saudi Arabia, Lybia, and North Korea....
     
  14. Daisy

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    Support us or we'll kill you? That's scary...not much different from what you accuse the terrorists of doing. :confused:
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

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    That's just crazy.

    Look daisy, it is obvious you know nothing about history, and I don't want to waste time here, other minds greater than mine are fully in support of this war, and think dubya is one of the more honorable men we have had in the White House in a long time. I would have no problem with sanctions first, and U.N. sponsorship, but we see all the good that has done in the past. We know these countries support Islam-based terrorism. Why wait until another 9/11, or are you of the mindset that 9/11 was our fault ?
     
  16. Ignazio_er

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    The only thing even close to factual in this polemic rambling is your admission that other minds are greater than yours. So much for pacifist Baptists.
     
  17. Conservative Christian

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    "Like we did back in the old days when we went to the Barbary Coast to fight pirates, who a lot like terrorists today, operate with a rogue attitude, without borders. We fought the countries that harbored them. There was no immediate threat to our homeland, but a way of life was at stake."

    By attacking, robbing and pillaging American ships, and in the process murdering American sailors---the Barbary pirates had committed a direct act of war.

    Saddam/Iraq had done no such thing. There is still no confirmed evidence linking them to 9-11. 15 of the 19 9-11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, none were from Iraq.

    Saddam is an atheist and the Baathist party is secular. Saddam is widely regarded as an "infidel" in the Middle East. He has actually tortured and killed thousands of militant Islamic theocrats in his country for decades.

    Removing Saddam from power will actually HELP the Islamic militants in Iraq.


    "Like dubya said, you are either for us, or against us."

    Bush's simplistic notion is baseless. Many outstanding military men have strongly criticized the Iraq operation from the beginning. To mention only a few---General Norman Scwarzkopf, General Anthony Zinni, General Wesley Clark and Colonel David Hackworth.

    "I just wish he could back it up. Countries like Saudi Arabia, Lybia, and North Korea"

    Unfortunately, he can't. If he was really serious about combatting terrorism, he should've taken out Fidel Castro his first year in office. Fidel's very likely the biggest terrorist in the Western Hemisphere, and only ninety miles from our shore.

    Terrorists reside in virtually every country on earth. We can't invade and conquer every nation on earth. Terrorists will always have places to hide.

    Tiny Israel can't locate many of the terrorists within her own borders. The Irish can't even locate all the terrorists in the city of Belfast!

    Bush is delirious if he thinks he can locate and destroy all the terrorists on earth. Invading the Middle East under the guise of combatting terrorism, will only unite the entire region in a Jihad against us.
     
  18. Hardsheller

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    In the word of a really great American - "Bring it on!" :D
     
  19. Bro. Curtis

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    Are you saying we had no Islamic enemies before George Bush ? Are you going to tell me that there was no Jihad, or Fatwa against the U.S. before George Bush ?

    What about the U.S.S. Cole ? That wasn't an attack on our sailors ?

    What about the Iranian hostage crisis, that happened while a pacifist Democrat was in office ?

    Who was it that said you don't wait for a howling rattlesnake to strike before you chop it's head off ? Was he a democrat, republican ?

    Who was it that nuked Japan, democrat or republican ?

    Who escalated the war in Vietnam, democrat, or republican ?
     
  20. Ignazio_er

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    Yeah, and it happened immediately AFTER the collapse of a dictator who was installed by the United States Central Intelligence Agency. Are you aware of this historical fact?
     

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