Pre-Flood world???

I started to watch a "documentary" concerning the Flood of Noah on Cable this weekend. It began with a half-dozen reasons why the Bible account of the flood was impossible.

2 Peter 3:5-6
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

 

I had just gotten an Email from the East Tennessee Creation Science Association about the very say thing. Why is people are so willing to research every possiblity of life on this planet and yet ignore the Bible. Thou it has proven to be true Historicaly and Scientificly such as the water and Blood coming from Jesus side it was fortelling of the sack of clear fluid that surround the heart. And the explosion of Mount Saint Hellen showed that peat can befored in a matter of a few decades not millions of years. Why not believe the Biblical account as it is with out trying to justify old age theory all of the dating methods that come up with old ages are based on varible decay rates of Carbon 14 and Argon we have only abserved these decay rates for 100yrs or so how do we know what happens after that. The C14/C12 ratio will change with the Flood and Volcanic activities and polution. But they do not accept the Flood so they auto dismiss it.

 

I other thing I would like to point out if the world is old and it takes millions of years for Coal and oil to be made and for things to be petrfied. Than explain why we have found the following embedded in caol: Chain Links, Timbal, Human Skull and bones. In Down Under they found a pertrafied bobwire fence. After Mount Saint Helen Blew in the 1990s I believe they found peat at the bottom of the lake. We find tombstone of a Catholic Saint with pictures of Dinosaurs on the Tomb. The Book of Job describes a Long Neck Dinosaur as the Bohmeth.

 

here is a website that demonstrates the Hot Air ballons possibly used for sending the dead back to the sun 1500yrs ago.

http://www.nott.com/nazca.htm

 

That's being discussed in another thread. The description for the behemoth in Job does not mention a "long necked" dinosaus. It's important to note that the Hebrew word behmowth is translated "water ox". The animal we call the hippopatomus was called a water-ox by the ancient hebrews. Since the KJV and Geneva era translators were unfamiliar with the Hebrew entymology, they rightfully kept the word untranslated. Hence, the word "behemoth". In any event, the topic of Job's behemoth is irrelevant to a literal or non-literal view of Genesis 1.

 

Well there are problems if it is a Hippo first a tail like a cedar tree. Hippos tail maybe 6 to 8inchs. Can stand with its mouth open against the Jordan River at Flood stage without fear. Again I do not think a Hippo could. Bones Strong as Bronze again not a Hippo. Strength in its Sinews not a Hippo. There is a Long Neck Dino I can not remember its name right off the bat but One of it descriptions is the Strength in its Sinews. You are right it does not say Long Neck specificly but the Long Neck Dino is one that fits the description provided by Job. Kinda like the Unicorn which I think refers to a Rhino in the Bible Ox as we know them have always been able to be tamed and put to work but I do not think anyone has hook a plow to a Rhino. Yet!

I would also like to add that I place the link on here to show that man has been able to do things we thought early man was incapible of doing. I heard that the population before the Flood was around 1.6Billion all speaking the same Language they could get a lot more done plus their bodys and brain were not as corrupted by sin as ours are so they were able to figure things out quicker also plus they could study alot longer as it was posible for them to live around 900yrs as today we are good to reach 85.

But it is relevant to the Fact that Man and Dinos coexisted before and after the Flood way to much evidence supports it.

 

Again, this is being discussed in another thread. No need to duplicate the postings. In the other thread, some (including myself) have posted descriptions of varying cedars of varying ages, and everyone's welcome to look the themselves. An average lebanon cedar tree is long and skinny, with scraggly branches, very much like a hippo tail, imo.

This referrs to the behemoth's "stones", aka, testicles. Dinosaurs don't have testicles. Their genitalia were internal. OTOH, hippos are, well, uh, prominent.

The Hebrew word r'em was used to refer to an ox. (the entemology comes from ra'am, which means "to be lifted up"). It generally referrs to a "horned" animal. The KJV era translators took a "horned" animal to refer to a singula horn, but a "horned" animal in Hebrew does not refer to the number of horns, but instead the fact that an animal is horned.

Actually, there are no dinosaur remains that carbon date to the same age as human bones. Dinosaus bones date considerably older. However, for the purpose of this discussion, we're presuming the flood to be a literal event, and asking the question as to whether certain life forms are pre-flood. So there's really no need to delve into the whole fossil/age issue. The presumption among the YEC's is that sinosaurs were pre-flood. Since dinosaurs fossils do not date younger than 4000 years, but human remains do, that's actually a supportable YEC idea. And, since the events chronicled in Job are post-flood, then there's no reason to think that Job referring to contemporary animals (such as the hippo) is in any way unscriptural.

 

I would agreee with you, if the results were not consistent. However, as I stated before, I don't think the intent of this thread is to go down that road. After all, we jumped up and down when carbon dating disproved the Shroud of Turin . These tangents tend to get ugly, so let's try to avoid that.

Just trying to stick to the topic.

 

Carbon dating according to Evolutionist is only good fro 600000yrs so It can not be used according them to date dinosaurs. Plus the Flood with volcanic activity changes the C12 to C14 ratio pre flood plants. There is evidence if you believe in a Flood and that the Bible is True and the Flood is literal. If you do not than you will simply dismiss the Truth. You have deposits all over the Earth laid out in layers Human Skulls and Bones found embedded in Coal which that would means that Man has been around for a long long time that Coal does not take that long to form or it could have been a man caught in the Flood. Peat is forming at the bottom of a lake below Mt. Saint Helen from the Trees blow over by the blast into the lake. I believe the Eruption happened in the 80s can not remember for sure. But it gives a good example of how quick peat can form and how Petrified Trees are formed due to a Global Flood. www.answersingenesis.com has info on this as well.

The PreFlood was worned of a coming flood by noah for 100yrs yet it had not rained during that whole time the ground was watered by due. Plus the Earth was surrounded by a cloud layer that kept a Greehouse affect thru the whole world. Plus I believe they said the atmosphere was thicker and had a bigger precentage of O2 in it.

 

Whoa, you're going off on a YEC tangent. All of us here are, for the purpose of this discussion, presuming the flood to be literal, so this is a nonissue. As far as the carbon dating issue, no matter what one believes, dinosaurs do not date to a post-flood era. Since the timeline covered in Job is post-flood, there's no scriptural reason to insist that the animals described therein were dinosaurs or similar.

 

While I agree with the 24 hour day view, I think it is important to note that several of the days speak of there being morning and evening, yet there was no sun on which to base that.

I see the Genesis day as being, at its heart, simply the time it took for God's command to be accomplished in the created order. In other words, the molecules and atoms did the things that He commanded them to do and ordered themselves accordingly within the alloted time. A day is, actually, just the time it takes for God's will to be done. Not only that, He works openly for all to see...He works in the light of day, not the secrecy of the dark of night.

Does that negate the 24 hour day? Certainly not, that's the miracle of creation, that all the earth, etc. did what it was told to do within such a short span of time.

I think also we should remember that the first words "Let there be light," also reflect the first idea of election, that is, God choosing, in this case, the place where life would exist. The text of the account reads as if God looked out onto this formless expanse and made a choice. He proclaimed, as it were, "Here, in this place in space and time, I will create life, nowhere else." (Light and life are always closely related symbolically in Scripture), so that not only was light created and separated from darkness in a literal sense, it was also indicative of God's special plan, that here and only here (and here is mighty small in the grand scheme of the universe with what we see in the heavens above us), God said, "I will demonstrate Myself to be good, right, and just; I will show my power, I will be glorfied, and it will be worth it, and it will be good," and then He set about the work of creation.

To me, the account of that first day is one of the most marvelous accounts of God's choice, His power, and His glory in all of the Bible.

(Just my two cents) .

 

And we would never see that demonstration of His goodness, righteousness, power, and glory unless He revealed it through creation and illuminated it to our eyes by giving us light (and life as you say). I very much appreciate your thoughts, here -- worth more than two cents.

Andy

 

(dinosaurs do not date to a post-flood era) Dinos did exist post flood do a search on Google search for dino and man coexist. Also look up Dinosaur pictures on 14th century catholic saints tomb. There are the foot prints of man and dino together these may be pre flood not sure. The pre-flood civ must have been smart it onlt took 5 gens before the first technologies came along.

Gen 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
21 And his brother’s name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

Here we have cattle farming and herding, We have Musical intsruments harp and organ and last we have works of iron and brass in just 5 generations. It took us along time we are moving much slower than they were. We are just now getting really advanced.

 

Uhh, so, you're telling me that dinosaurs existed a mere 600 or so years ago? There's no evidence to suggest that. None.

You're likely referring the the Paluxy tracks. The "man tracks" have since been refuted. Even AiG states that this arguement should not be used by YEC's.

One thing I did,however, neglect to mention, is that, presuming an OEC stance for a moment, crocodiles are cretaceous. While crocodiles are not dinosaurs, but reptiles, they would, by the OEC timeline, have existed at the same time as some dinosaurs. But, for some reason, some YEC's don't think that's good enough, and insist, without any biblical suport whatsoever, that the animals described by Job MUST be an animal that's no longer around, and MUST be from an era which OEC supporters asssert is older than 6000 years. There's simply no reason to have to go down that road. It's completely irrelevant to the writings of the book of Job.

 

Actually, it's not brass. It's bronze. Brass is a somewhat contemporary invention. The KJV authors used the word brass, because the word was used somewhat interchangeably at the time. Also, the "organ" is a different type of instrument that we know of today (but the spiritual significance of praising Him with mighty instruments is the same today as when it was written).

Those of us who have lived through the nuclear and technological revolutions would disagree, but that whole observation is rather subjective, and not really pertinent to the topic at hand.

[ May 26, 2004, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

(Those of us who have lived through the nuclear and technological revolutions would disagree, but that whole observation is rather subjective, and not really pertinent to the topic at hand.)

What I am pointing out is that in five gens they already inveited the easlier posted technologies. It took the post flood world 3 or 4 thousand years to get to the point were are now.