Pre-Trib - not strongly supported Biblically

I will show IT IS WRITTEN:
The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period.
The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath).
The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)

The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period. FOR IT IS WRITTEN
in Daniel 9:26-27 (nKJV):

"And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah
shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to
come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations
are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with
many for one week; But in the middle
of the week He shall bring an end
to sacrifice and offering. And on
the wing of abominations shall be
one who makes desolate, Even until
the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate."

Please note the lower case "h" in "he" in verse 27
refering not to Messiah in verse 26 but the
to the "prince that shall come".
Note it is written that the Anti-messiah's seven years
are divided in the middle by the abomination
of desolation, dividing the 7-year period into
to parts each 3½-years long (1260 days, 42 months).

The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection,
FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 1 Thessalonains 4:13-18 (KJV1873):

But I would not have you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning them which are asleep,
that ye sorrow not, even as others which have
no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose
again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus
will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of
the Lord, that we which are alive and remain
unto the coming of the Lord shall
not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from
heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath) FOR IT IS WRITTEN in
1 Thessalonains 5:1-10 (KJV1873):

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren,
ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so cometh as
a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say,
Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon
a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness,
that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light,
and the children of the day: we are
not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others;
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night;
and they that be drunken are drunken
in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day,
be sober, putting on the breastplate
of faith and love; and for an helmet,
the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether
we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together,
and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)
FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (KJV1873):

Now we beseech you, brethren,
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind,
or be troubled, neither by spirit,
nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except
there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition;

I have shown IT IS WRITTEN:
The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period.
The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath).
The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)

---------------------------------------------------

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

The timeline according to Matthew 24
(Mount Olivet Discourse, also Matthew 25,
Mark 13, Luke 21):

0. church age continues
Matthew 24:4-15

1. rapture/resurrection
Matthew 24:31-44

2. Tribulation time
Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
Matthew 24:29-30)

Not mentioned in Matthew 24:
(4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom)
(5. new heaven & new earth)

The timeline according to Revelation:

0. church age continues - Rev 2-3
1. rapture/resurrection - Rev 4:1 (type)
2. Tribulation time - Rev 4:2-19:10
3. Second Advent of Jesus event - Rev 19:11-21
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom - Rev 20:1-6
5. new heaven & new earth - Rev 20:7-22:5

The timeline according to 2 Thessalonians 2:

0. church age continues <== you are here!
(implied, until the falling away)

1. rapture/resurrection
v.1 - gathering together unto him
v.3 - falling away

2. Tribulation time
(time of the man of sin)

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
v.1 - coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
v.8

Not mentioned:
(4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom)
(5. new heaven & new earth)

 

"God has not appointed us unto wrath." AMEN!
"But to obtain salvation by Jesus Christ our Lord."
What is the opposite of wrath? Not deliverance from some intense persecution and tribulation, but SALVATION!!! Heaven!

If all believers at the end are to be delivered from a 7-year earthly tribulation time, regardless of their spiritual development, then why did our loving Father allow his faithful martyrs to be tortured and slaughtered by the millions during the "Dark Ages"? And why does He allow so many true, faithful believers to suffer around the world today? (More have been killed for their faith in the 20th Century than in any previous.)
And why did He allow His own Son, Who was more faithful than any other, to suffer more than any other? And why did Jesus Himself say "In the world ye shall suffer tribulation"? And why did the Spirit lead Paul to say "We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom"?

"Wrath" in the Thessalonian passage is clearly hell itself, where believers will never go.

But if I'm wrong, consider this: it is better to be prepared for trouble and not have it than to think we are exempt and then find ourselves in it!

R. Charles Blair - Rom. 8:28

 

Blair,

Good Point!

The Bible does not promise us that we shall escape from tribulations.

Because Christ suffered on the cross for us, so, therefore, we should follow Christ's example that we should be suffer for Him - 1 Peter 2:21.

Aren't the saints part of the Body of Christ - church -Rev. 13:7?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

The Bible says in Revelation that the "Tribulation" is the Wrath of the Lamb. In this age Satan causes suffering and tribulation and Jesus gives us life (John 10:10). But then it will be Jesus who brings suffering and judgement upon the eath. I don´t have to endure that wrath and judgement. You can interpret "wrath" as "hell" as much as you want. I am still saved from wrath. The same who will bring judgement and suffering upon the earth in the tribulation time (which by the way is Jacob´s Trouble, not the church´s trouble) dies to set me free from it!

 

Ed,

Let's start with Dan. 9--the foundation of pretrib. theology:

How many times is a small "h" used to refer to Christ in the New Testament? I'll let you count.
That arguement is completely invalid.

The introduction of the antichrist into Daniel 9 is completely unwarranted, out of context and (as I've mentioned before) gramatically suspect.

The context is an answer to Daniel's prayer--how would God keep His covenant with disobedient Israel (9:1-19)? Gabriel comes to help Daniel understand how God will keep the covenant with Israel(9:20-23). Messiah confirms the covenant with many in Israel (9:26-27).

The focus of the passage (9:24-27)is the Messiah, and the results of His coming. Try diagramming the sentences in there. "The prince" is not the subject there, but rather the object of a descriptive phrase--describing whose people will destroy the temple. "The people" are the subject, not "the prince".

The "he" of 9:27 thus refers back to the main subject of the passage, i.e. "Messiah".

So it is written.

Tim

 

Tim,

That's correct. Important to understand what the passage talking about is to read in contextually first. I do not see two persons being mentioned in the context of Dan. 9:24-27, I can see only one person being mentioned in that context. It speaks of Messiah - Jesus Christ.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Then you
have Jesus, the Messiah, committing
the Abomination of Desolation.
I'm sorry, i will NEVER buy that
My Messiah commits an Abomination.
Never.
Restate your statement. Thank you.

Do you know what "Abomination" means?
abomination = something hateful and
digusting. Rethink, Messiah Yeshua
does NOT NEVER commit NO abomination.

Daniel 9:26-27 (Third Millennium Bible):

And after threescore and two weeks shall
Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself;
and the people of the prince who shall
come shall destroy the city and
the sanctuary. And the end thereof
shall be with a flood, and until the
end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant
with many for one week; and in the
midst of the week he shall cause
the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.
And for the overspreading of abominations
he shall make it desolate, even until
the consummation, and that determined
shall be poured upon the desolate.

Note that the Third Millennium Bible
denotes the members of the Trinity:
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and pronouns
pertaining to them with CAPITAL LETTERS.
Non-dietys are denoted with small letter
pronouns.

I bolded portions of the text so you
can see when the discussion of the
Messiah ends and the discussions of
the anti-messiah ends.

 

Tim: "Let's start with Dan. 9--the foundation of pretrib. theology: ... "

Actually Daniel 9 is NOT the "foundation of pretrib theology",
Daniel 9 is the capstone of pretrib theology.

Messiah Yeshua is the foundation of pretrib theology.

Get your capstones and foundations straight if
you want to have a discussion with me. Thank you.

Tim: "How many times is a small "h" used to refer to Christ
in the New Testament? I'll let you count.
That arguement is completely invalid.//

Obviously, depens on how respectful of the Diety
that the version of the Bible might be.
The King James Version, 1769 edition (KJV1769) shows great
disrespect of all three members of the Blessed Trinity:
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit
by using the dimunative "h" in "he".

Go find yourself an alledged "Modern Version" that
shows respect unto the Godhead with capital "H" "he".

And thank you for yielding that point to me.

And you also seem to want to have my blessed Messiah, Lord, and
Savior: Yeshua, commit an abomination. Poor form, Bro.

Tim: //The "he" of 9:27 thus refers back to the main subject of the passage, i.e. "Messiah".//

The "he" of 9:27 refers back to 9:26 "the prince who shall
come shall destroy the city and
the sanctuary"

Prince Iesus is THE CREATOR, not a destroyer.
This prince must refer to the antimessiah to come.

Score: Hope - 3, Doubt - negative one.

My hope is that when Iesus comes to get
me, He will come before the Tribulation Period.

 

Amen, Brother Jesus Is Lord -- Preach it!

 

You go, Ed, my brother!!!

I get so sick of the same old load of bunk being spewed over and over. Hey, if you believe that God would cast off the bride of Christ, and comdemn those bought with the blood of Jesus to the same wrath and judgement He will pour out on unrepentant mankind, I that is your perogative.

And if someone believes that Christians will have to endure the Tribulation, but will be spared from all the effects, they must be reading a different Bible than mine.

I will say that I am not convinced of the "seven year" timetable deal, but I do know that Jesus will come and call out those who belong to Him, both alive and dead, to come to Him in the sky, and that this will happen prior to the events of Revelation 4+. Of this I have no doubt whatsoever.

I will not try to argue the point with you who see things differently, and ask that you respect those of us who differ from your point of view to treat us with at least some respect. The word of God is a big book, and no one has a corner on every interpretation therein. I know that I do not pretend to do so (but I do like to chime in my two cents worth from time to time).

Thank you, good night, and God bless.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Dan. 9:26-27 already fulfilled Christ allowed Roman army invaded Jerusalem and destroyed the building of the temple in year 70 A.D.

Does Christ destroyed the building of the temple? Yes. Does Christ destroyed the daily scarifces? Yes.

In John 2:19 - Christ said, "destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

The jews were not understand what Christ was talking about. They told him, that builing of the temple were builted for 46 years, but three days impossible.

John 2:21 tells us, temple was speak of his body, that he rose it up in three days by the resurrection.

Yes, Christ did destroyed that building of the temple by allow Roman Army 40 years later after the resurrection.

Also, John 19:30 tells us, Christ said, 'it is finished'. It means, He fulfilled the prophecies of the Old testament, also, to put the daily sacrifices ended.

We are no longer doing daily animal sacrifice, because Christ is now our Lamb, and our sacrifice. We may worship Christ 24 hours, and asking Christ to forgive us our sin 24 hours, because we are Christ's priests.

Dan. 9:24-27 tell us, that Christ did fulfilled them by Calvary 2,000 years ago.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Ed,

Of course Dan. 9:27 does not say Christ would commit any abomination. Read it carefully, it says that he would cause the sacrifice to cease and BECAUSE of the overspreading of abominations (of others), he would make it (the sanctuary) desolate. Indeed Christ did leave the temple desolate--so pronounced in Mat. 23:38 because of the abominations of the Jewish leaders. Ultimately the Romans made it official.

As far as the small "h" in "he"--I'm just reading my good old KJV. Jesus is often referred to as "he". There's no disrespect in that.

Finally, you have to admit that the ONLY basis for a seven-year tribulation period is the pretrib. interpretation of Daniel 9. There is no other scriptural basis for a seven-year period. That's why your interpretation of Daniel is so vital to your position's timeline. It is foundational.

And I'm arguing that you've misunderstood it and taken it out of textual and historical context to arrive at your position. That is the thesis of this thread.

I know that pointing out these things tends to make dispensationalists very defensive. Believe me, I have felt their wrath in times past. But I'm only trying to clarify what has become a very confusing passage to many modern American believers.

In Christ,

Tim

 

Tim: "There is no other scriptural basis for a seven-year period."

You should know i have multiple
scriptural foundation for the 7-year
Tribulation period.

I need to go to bed
I work for a living.

 

Ed,

where in the Bible saying 'seven years' of tribulation period???

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

You say:
DeafPosttrib: "where in the Bible saying 'seven years'
of tribulation period???"

You mean: I do not accept your Biblical evidence
of a 7-year Tribulation period.

I've shown you many times on many venues.

Jesus says in Matthew 7:6 (nKJV):
Do not give what is holy to the dogs;
nor cast your pearls before swine,
lest they trample them under their feet,
and turn and tear you in pieces.

Nevertheless, because there are non-swine present
who perchane have not seen the proof, here we go:

I will show IT IS WRITTEN:
The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period.
The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath).
The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)

The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period. FOR IT IS WRITTEN
in Daniel 9:26-27 (nKJV):

"And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah
shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to
come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations
are determined.
27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with
many for one week; But in the middle
of the week He shall bring an end
to sacrifice and offering. And on
the wing of abominations shall be
one who makes desolate, Even until
the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate."

Please note the lower case "h" in "he" in verse 27
refering not to Messiah in verse 26 but the
to the "prince that shall come".
Note it is written that the Anti-messiah's seven years
are divided in the middle by the abomination
of desolation, dividing the 7-year period into
to parts each 3½-years long (1260 days, 42 months).

The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection,
FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 1 Thessalonains 4:13-18 (KJV1873):

But I would not have you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning them which are asleep,
that ye sorrow not, even as others which have
no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose
again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus
will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of
the Lord, that we which are alive and remain
unto the coming of the Lord shall
not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from
heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain
shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath) FOR IT IS WRITTEN in
1 Thessalonains 5:1-10 (KJV1873):

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren,
ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so cometh as
a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say,
Peace and safety; then sudden destruction
cometh upon them, as travail upon
a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness,
that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light,
and the children of the day: we are
not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others;
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night;
and they that be drunken are drunken
in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day,
be sober, putting on the breastplate
of faith and love; and for an helmet,
the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether
we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together,
and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)
FOR IT IS WRITTEN in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (KJV1873):

Now we beseech you, brethren,
by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind,
or be troubled, neither by spirit,
nor by word, nor by letter as from us,
as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except
there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition;

I have shown IT IS WRITTEN:
The Anti-messiah shall reign for 7-years,
the Tribulation period.
The rapture (caught up) will follow a resurrection.
The rapture/resurrection will occur without
previous notice and before the Tribulation period
(wrath).
The rapture (caught up)/resurrection (gathering)
is at the beginning of the Tribulation period
(time of the Anti-messiah)

Of course, this is NOT the only place where the
7-year Tribulation period (regin of the Antichrist)
is shown. More for a later post ...

 

Search the KJV1769 for
"a thousand two hundred and threescore days"

results:

Click Verse for Commentary Notes

Re 11:3 - Show Context
And I will give power unto my two witnesses,
and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days,
clothed in sackcloth.

Re 12:6 - Show Context
And the woman fled into the wilderness,
where she hath a place prepared of God,
that they should feed her there
a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

How are the two witnesses going to prophesy at the Temple
site (context, context, context) AND flee with
the woman in the wilderness at the same time?
Two time periods. We note that if you use 360 prophetic
days equals one year that 1260 is 3½-years. 2 times 3½ = 7.

Search the KJV1769 for the phrase:
"a time, and times, and half a time":

Click Verse for Commentary Notes

Re 12:14 - Show Context
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle,
that she might fly into the wilderness,
into her place, where she is nourished for a time,
and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent

time (1-year)
times (2-year)
half a time (½-years)
add it together = 3½-years
Obviously the same 3½-years as in Revelation 12-6.

Note "from the face of the serpent"
yet the ministry of the two witnesses is definately
IN THE FACE of a helpless serpent/antichrist/beast from the sea.

Look in the KJV1769 for the phrase:
"forty and two months":

Click Verse for Commentary Notes

Re 11:2 - Show Context
But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not;
for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city
shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Re 13:5 - Show Context
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies;
and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

This power of the beast from the sea is
when the Jewish/Israeli who are saved must flee
from the face of the dragon. BTW, "the dragon" refers
to a Satan indwelt "beast from the sea", i.e. the second half
of the Tribulation period the Antichrist shall reign, indwelt
by Satan.

As for Revelation 11:2, right before the two witnesses,
it refers to the first half of the Tribulation period when
the Antichrist is rising to power.
BTW, the only way to measure a space is for the building of
something there. So the temple shall be rebuilt, perchance
after the pretribulation rapture. During the first half of
the Tribualtion period, the gentiles shall overrun Jerusalem
and the lost Jews will share the area as well.
The outer court of the Temple is where the Dome of the Rock
is now located, so the new Temple will just be the inner
temple next to the Dome of the Rock.

Oh yes, 42 months times 30 prophetic days per month = 1260 days,
the 3½-years again.

-----------------------------------------

Here is the major outline of three conflicting views of the future:

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib pre-mill outline:

0. church age continues
2. Tribulation time
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib a-mill outline:

0. church age continues - is the same as:
2. Tribulation time - is the same as:
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
5. new heaven & new earth

Ed recommends the pretrib pre-mill
view as aligning most nearly with Holy Scripture.
Ed recommends:
get Rapture Ready!
Stay Rapture Ready!


-----------------------------------------
Here is an Expanded pretrib timeline:

0. church age continues

1. rapture/resurrection

2. The 7-year Tribulation Period

2a. Starting events
2a1. The seven year AC/Israel treaty

2b. the first half (3.5years) - the Tribulation period
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2b1. The Seal Judgments (Revelation 6)
2b2. Rise of the Antichrist
2b3. Ten nation confederacy (Daniel 2:42-44;
---- Daniel 7:7,24; Rev 12:3; Rev 17:12,16)
2b4. The ministry of Elijah (Rev 11:3, Malachi 4:5,6)
2b5. Ministry of the 144,000 Israeli (Rev 7)
2b6. The Trumpet judgements/wrath (Rev 8-9)
2b7. The false church (ecclesiastical Babylon)
----- (Revelation 17:1-6)

2c. the mid-tribulation events
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2c1. The Little Scroll (Rev 10)
2c2. AC killed (Rev 13:3)
2c3. Satan cast out of heaven (Rev 12:7,9)
2c4. Resurrection of AC (Rev 13:3,4)
2c5. 3 kings killed, 7 submit to AC
2c6. destruction by AC of false church (Rev 7:16)
2c7. Death/resurrection of two witnesses
2c8. Worship of the AC starts (Rev 13:3,4,8)
2c9. Rise of the False Prophet (Rev 13:11-15)
2c10. MOB=mark of the beast (Rev 13:16-18)
2c11. 7-year covenant broken (Isaiah 28:18; Daniel 11:41)
2c12. AOD=abomination of Desolation
----- (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:4)
2c13. Persecution of the Jews begins
----- (Rev 12:1-6)

2d. the second half (3.5years) - the Great Tribulation period
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2d1. the Bowl Judgments/wrath (Rev 16)
2d2. protection of the Jewish Remnant
---- (Micah 2:12; Matthew 24:16; Revelation 12:6,14)
2d3. Armageddon (these items are in time sequence):

2d3a. - assembling the allies of AC
------- (Rev 16:12-16)
2d3b. - destruction of Babylon
------- (Isaiah 13; Jeremiah 50-51; Revelation 18)
2d3c. - Fall of Jerusalem
------- (Micah 4:11-5:1; Zachariah 12:1-9; 14:1,2)
2d3d. - Armies of AC at Bozrah (Jeremiah 49:13,14)
2d3e. - Conversion of Israel complete
------- (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25-27)

(2e the end of the Trib, which is the Second Advent
---- of Jesus to defeat the AC and set up the MK)

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
3a. postrib gathering and resurrection of the trib saints
3b. antichrist and false prophet are cast alive into the Lake of Fire
- 19:20-22!
3c. The Judgment of the Nations= Matthew 25:31-46

4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom

5. Satan loosed for a little season to deceive the Nations - Revelation 20:7-8!

6. The final battle of God and Magog! - Revelation 20:8-9!

7. Satan cast into the lake of Fire. - Revelation 20:10!

8. The Great White Throne of Judgment! - Revelation 20:11-15!

9.new heaven & new earth - 2 Peter 3:10

10. The Eternal Kingdom! The New Heavens and New Earth
and the New Jerusalem! - Revelation 21:1-3!

-----------------------------------------

Praise Jesus, He is coming to get me
before the Tribulation period!!!

 

If I remember my history correctly, the Roman-Jewish wars lasted 3 1/2 years. That sure would fit into the historical context of these passages.

But that's too easy. Better to insert a gap into Daniel's prophecy, push Revelation into the future and replay history again.

I realize it takes a major paradigm shift to consider the tribulation of the first century as THE tribulation. But it sure makes the scripture easier to understand.

Blessings Ed,

Tim

 

Tim: "If I remember my history correctly, the Roman-Jewish wars
lasted 3 1/2 years. That sure would fit into the historical
context of these passages."

One match out of hunderds of specific prophecies and
you call it "fit"?

Tim: "I realize it takes a major paradigm shift to consider
the tribulation of the first century as THE tribulation.
But it sure makes the scripture easier to understand."

Such a stance makes Jesus to be a liar.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV1769):

For then shall be great tribulation,
such as was not since the beginning of the world
to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I can think of much worse tribulation than suffered by
the Jews of Yisrael in 70AD. Among them are:

1. the Black Plague of the 14th century which
killed 1/4 of the population of Europe, over 100 Million
and unknown suffering in the rest of the world.
2. The Golden Horde of Kubla Khan that killed
millions of people from what is now France to what is
now Korea.
3. 35 Million Chrisian Martyrs in the world during
the 20th century (1901-2000).
4. /more than i care to list right now/

BTW, Revelation predicts an army of 200,000,000 crossing
the Euphrates river. The population of the earth in 70AD
was about 200,000,000. When was that prophecy fulfilled?

Tim: "Blessings Ed,
Tim"

And may it be unto you double what
you asked for me!

Matthew 24:13 (KJV1769):
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Warning, this is a trick question.
According to Matthew 24:13, what happens to those
who do not endure unto the end?

 

So Ed, do you have some sort of LaHaye Prophecy Commentary computer disc ? You just click on a topic and out spews Pre-Mill Disp?

 

Ed,

Your logical of the outline about seven year of tribulation period, that I do not agree with your logical.

Dan. 9:26-27 tells us, Christ was cut off in the midst of the week after his 3 1/2 years of ministry on earth. That mean, the seveneith week already fulfilled through Calvary 2,000 years ago.

How about 3 1/2 years, 42 months, 1260 days, 'time, times, and diving a time' of Revelation chapter 11, 12, and 13,?

Rememeber, the book of Revelation is not chronology, it have retelling the events, also, it have parallels.

I believe Antichrist will given to have power for only 42 months is 3 1/2 years. It does not saying Antichrist shall have power for 84 months or 7 years.

If you believe there shall be literal seven years of tribulation period, you have to add every numbers, timing total in chronologically from the book of Revelation in math. That would be 17 years total. 17 years?

How about 2300 days of Dan. 8:14? Many believe it is literally 2300 days nearly 7 years, Jews intepreting it into days and nights into divided is 1150 days and 1150 nights close to 3 1/2 years.

I read Dan. 8:11-14 speak about the daily sacrifice shall be taken away and desolation. I am sure that in dispensationalists' mind, that it speaks of Antichrist shall halt sacrifice at the building of the temple in Jerusalem.

Notice, Dan. 8:11-14 seems clear refer with Dan. 9:24-27 much same, both speak clearly toward Messiah, who shall end the daily sacrifice in the midst of the week, obivously focus on Calvary after Messiah's 3 1/2 years of ministry. That Messiah ended the daily sacrifices. He said, "it is finished" - John 19:30. Also, he said, he shall destroy it, and shall raise it up in three days - John 2:19. Clear, Christ spoken about that building of temple shall be destroyed(fulfilled in 70 A.D.)and he shall raise it up in three days, speaks of Christ's body as temple in his resurrection John 2:21.

So, there is no scripture saying there shall be seven years of tribulation period.

I believe Antichrist shall persecute against Christians for 42 months according to Rev. 13:5, not 84 months or 7 years.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!