Predestination Proven ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Bismarck, Sep 25, 2007.

  1. Bismarck

    Bismarck
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    (1) The phrase "foundation of the world" appears 10 times in the NT.

    QUESTION: When was the "foundation of the world"?


    (2) One of the 10 verses in the NT wherein this phrase appears is Hebrews 4:3:

    Hebrews 4:3-4
    For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
    "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
    THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," [Ps 95:11]
    although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.

    For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS" [Gen 2:2];

    CONCLUSION: The "foundation of the world" clearly refers to Creation.


    (3) Another 2 of the 10 verses in the NT wherein this phrase appears are 1 Peter 1:20:

    1 Peter 1:20
    For He [=Messiah, Christ] was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you.

    and John 17:24

    John 17:24
    Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given me, be with me where I am, so that they may see my glory which You have given me, for You loved me before the foundation of the world.

    CONCLUSION: YHWH-God planned the coming of the Messiah before YHWH-God created the Universe. It would seem that the Messiah is the "whole point" of Creation.


    (4) Another 3 of the 10 verses in the NT wherein this phrase appears are Ephesians 1:4:

    Ephesians 1:4
    According as He [=YHWH-God] hath chosen us in him [=Messiah] before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    and Revelation 13:8:

    Revelation 13:8
    And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him [= the beast], whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    and Revelation 17:8:

    Revelation 17:8
    The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    CONCLUSIONS: I assume there is no salvation outside of the Messiah — that is, without membership in the "Body of Christ" which is the True Church which is the Messianic Kingdom.

    Now, therefore, those who are saved members of the "Body of Christ" were so chosen (by YHWH-God) from before Creation (Eph 1:4), at practically the same time that the Messiah himself was "foreknown" (1 Pet 1:20) and "loved" (John 17:24).

    Further, those so saved (by YHWH-God's "foreknowledge", "fore-ordination", "pre-destination") had their names written into the Book of Life (by YHWH-God) at Creation (Rev 13:8, 17:8).

    Thus, by the moment of Creation, the Messiah and his flock (who make up his "body", the "Body of Christ", True Church, Messianic Kingdom), who are the only ones who are saved, were already (A) foreknown by YHWH-God; (B) written into the Book of Life.


    (5) Another 1 of the 10 verses in the NT wherein this phrase appears is Matthew 25:34:

    Matthew 25:31-34
    The Judgment
    But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him; and he will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and he will put the sheep on his right, and the goats on the left. Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

    CONCLUSIONS: At the Second Coming, when the Messiah comes again in glory, the foreknown saved will be given the Messianic Kingdom.

    Further, this Messianic Kingdom has been planned by YHWH-God from Creation, at practically the same time that the foreknown saved were written into the Book of Life (Rev 13:8, 17:8).

    Thus, by the moment of Creation, the Messiah and his flock and his Messianic Kingdom were already planned. It would seem that the Messiah, his flock, and his kingdom are the "whole point" of Creation.


    (6) Another 1 of the 10 verses in the NT wherein this phrase appears is Matthew 13:35:

    Matthew 13:34-35
    The Leaven

    All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet:
    "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES;
    I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD." [Ps 78:2*]


    *Psalm 78 is called "God's Guidance of His People in Spite of Their Unfaithfulness"​

    CONCLUSION: It would seem that, in addition to fore-ordination of the Messiah, his flock, and his kingdom, there are also other "things" which have also been fore-ordained since Creation. These "things" will be uttered by the Messiah.


    (7) Another 1 of the 10 verses in the NT wherein this phrase appears is Luke 11:50:

    Luke 11:47-51
    "Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and it was your fathers who killed them. So you are witnesses and approve the deeds of your fathers; because it was they who killed them, and you build their tombs [i.e., your fathers' also?]. For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute, so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.'"

    CONCLUSION: We have seen that the Messiah is the "whole point" of Creation. This is confirmed by these passages. For, YHWH-God did send many prophets over many years to Israel, in order to prepare her for the coming Messiah. Therefore, Israel's rejection, at the "epicenter of time", of the Messiah — in favor of, and due to the manipulations of, the Pharisees (religious (mis)leaders) — righteously merited the whole Wrath of God accumulated over those many years from the blood of those many prophets.

    Fourty years after the Crucifixion, on the Tisha B'Av — the Ninth of Av, which is the fifth month of the Jewish calendar (July/Aug.) — of 70 AD, Titus and the Roman Legions broke into Jerusalem and torched the city and the Second Temple. According to Josephus, one million Jews died in the fighting, and Jerusalem was slicked with a film of blood.

    (Almost) exactly 655 years earlier, Nebuchadrezzar had destroyed Jerusalem and the First Temple on the same day (2 Kings 25:8; Jeremiah 52:12).

    That the Wrath of YHWH-God would consume the lives of a million of His own chosen people witnesses clearly to the pivotal importance of the Messiah, his flock, and his kingdom in this Creation.

    See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tisha_B'Av
     
  2. Bismarck

    Bismarck
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    (8) The last of the 10 verses in the NT wherein this phrase appears is Hebrews 9:26:

    Hebrews 9:24-28
    For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us. Nor was it that he would offer himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, he would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages he has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation, without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await him.

    CONCLUSIONS: First, the Crucifixion marked the "consumation of the ages". From the Crucifixion forward has been, thusly, a New Age. The reckoning of time as BC and AD is Scripturally based.

    Further, the Messiah's Second Coming will bring "salvation" (the Messianic Kingdom) to those who "eagerly await him".


    SIDE TRACK:

    We know that the Messiah's Second Coming is limited to those who "eagerly await him" (Heb 9:28).

    I assume that salvation is limited to the Messiah and his flock and his kingdom.

    Now, therefore, those who "eagerly await" the Messiah must be the foreknown saved.


    The English words "eagerly await" come from the Greek word apekdechomai (G0553). This Greek word appears 7 times in the NT.

    (I) 3 of the 7 verses in the NT wherein this word appears are Romans 8:19,23,25:

    Romans 8:18-25
    For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly* for the revealing of the sons of God — for the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him [= the adversary] who subjected it — in hope because the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly* for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly* for it.

    *apekdechomai (G0553)​

    CONCLUSIONS: This further shows that the Messiah, his flock, and his kingdom are pivotal to Creation, which struggles towards that goal. In short, the Messiah's Reich is the "whole point" of Creation.

    Also, true "sonship" to YHWH-God — which must be equivalent to salvation by membership in Christ — is consummated only by "the redemption of our body" (Rom 8:23). This is the same as the resurrection, for the Messiah himself "was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:4).

    Therefore, at the Resurrection of the Dead on the Last Day (at the end of time), those who are truly foreknown saved and whose names are truly written in the Book of Life will be raised to life in bodies redeemed, "like angels in Heaven" (Matt 22:30).

    John 5:25-29
    Amen, Amen, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in himself, and He gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of separation.


    (II) Another 1 of the 7 verses in the NT wherein this word appears is Philippians 3:20:

    Philippians 3:20-21
    For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of his glory, by the exertion of the power that he has even to subject all things to himself.

    CONCLUSIONS: The Messiah is in Heaven (Heb 9:28; Phl 3:20). At the Second Coming, at the Resurrection, on the Last Day, our bodies will be glorified (Matt 22:30; Phl 3:21).


    (III) Another 1 of the 7 verses in the NT wherein this word appears is Galatians 5:5:

    Galatians 5:5
    For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting eagerly for the hope of righteousness.

    CONCLUSION: Only at the Resurrection on the Last Day will we know whether we are foreknown saved, or doomed. Meanwhile, we wait and hope that YHWH-God will Graciously declare us "righteous" (Gal 5:5) and raise us to life (John 5:29).


    (IV) The last of the 7 verses in the NT wherein this word appears is 1 Corinthians 1:7:

    1 Corinthians 1:4-8
    I thank God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    CONCLUSION: Those who "await eagerly" are the foreknown chosen, that is, the elect. They have been given the Grace of YHWH-God. At the Resurrection on the Last Day (which is the Second Coming), the Messiah Yeshua will "confirm" them, and they will be declared "blameless" (1 Cor 1:8) and "righteous" (Gal 5:5).



    We'll know for the first time
    If we're evil or divine
    We're the last in line
    We're the last in line

    Dio, Last in Line*

    *I do not endorse this song.​
     
  3. Bismarck

    Bismarck
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    John 8:58
    Yeshua said to them, "Amen, Amen, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

    The Messiah Yeshua here confirms the fore-ordination of the Messiah, even ever since the bygone days of Creation.
     

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