Predestination

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by charles_creech78, Jan 5, 2011.

  1. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78
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    Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. That being said from scripture and not only that but much more then that I read. I don't believe in predestination that God save some and elects some. I believe God can save all and died for all. I have alway believed that! If I have said anything out of the way I am sorry to all of you! Sometimes this flesh gets in the way. I do believe God has elected some to full fill his law and will. But to be saved I believe all can if they come to Christ believing that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. For there is no other name given under heaven where by we can be saved then the name Jesus Christ. For yet when we was sinners Christ died for ALL OF US! I do believe God has made that way for all of us if only we would come to him believing. God bless.
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    What about the billions of people who have lived and died and never heard the name "Jesus Christ", much less His gospel?

    Did they "have a chance" to "get saved" without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ?

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    very good question, brother.....

    for example, prior to the China mission by the great missionaries, God were sending all Chinese souls to hell.....

    and the Japanese people have pretty much been resistant to anything foreign, whether skin or religion, so until the great Japanese missions started, all Japanese went to hell...no one preaching the gospel....

    and so with the Filipino people, right ?
    until the Spanish conquistadores came with their friars, no one even heard the name Jesus Christ...we had Bathalas or such...so the Lord started applying the blood of Christ only when the first protestant missionaries came, right ? like the Thomasites and the First Baptists over at Panay ?

    good question...
     
  4. pinoybaptist

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    Why should God who very meticulously planned His creation and very meticulously pictured, shadowed, typified and illustrated His salvation and His Savior in the Old Testament, all of a sudden so carelessly leave into the hands of limited, finite, imperfect human beings the salvation of the souls of those among His crowning creation ?
     
  5. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78
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    Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
    Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
    Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
    Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
    Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
    Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
    Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
    Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
    Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?


    Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
    Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
    Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
    Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
    Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
    Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
    Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
    Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
    Rom 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
    Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
    Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

    Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. They have all heard! God bless!
     
  6. pinoybaptist

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    an answer which is no answer.
    like going to church and having the pastor read long Scriptures from the Bible and end with "amen" and "you are dismissed".
    everybody leaves not sure what just happened.
     
  7. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78
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    Why don't you read the scripture you will get your answer from it!
     
  8. walkbyfaith

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    I'd much rather hear the message from the Word of God than a pastor any day.
     
  9. pinoybaptist

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    no, I won't.
    The question is straightforward.
    You say you don't believe God elects anyone unto salvation in Christ.
    Your premise is that the gospel, obedience to the gospel, belief in it, etc., is what saves.
    Question: then what was Christ's death and resurrection for, which sanctifies the gospel, if the gospel is the one with power to save.
    Question: how many have heard the gospel since the Apostles and the church were scattered by persecution.
    Question:what about those who were born before the gospel, without the gospel, those who lived and died without the gospel, Christ's death and blood are INCAPABLE of saving any of them because the empowered gospel hasn't gotten to them, and they lived at times and places when gospel preachers and missionaries are unable to get to them ?
     
  10. pinoybaptist

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    then the Bereans were dumb ?
     
  11. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78
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    I gave you scripture that all have heard! You asked me about the ones that have not heard. The bible said that we all:thumbs: have heard.Go read what scripture I gave you and we will keep talking!
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    how could ALL have heard when the gospel as preached and believed on is less than 3000 years old ?
    If I told you that the word "world" does not mean "world" really but that God referred to the world He loved versus the world He hated, what would you say ?
    Wouldn't you insist that world is world, all is all ?
    and yet you're saying all is not really all.
     
  13. Robert Snow

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    This would be an improvement over the sermon I heard at Houston Primitive Baptist Church the time I attended!

    This pastor, I guess you call them Elders, said that a sinner did not even have to hear the gospel in order to be saved. Can you believe it!
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    :smilewinkgrin::tongue3::laugh::laugh:
     
  15. pinoybaptist

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    I can't and I won't if eternal salvation depended on hearing the gospel.
    blessedly it depends on the WILL of God, the OBEDIENCE of Christ, and the POWER of the Spirit. None of you, none of me.

    But you can go to your church, offer up a prayer of thanksgiving that you're not like those wretched Primitive Baptists who think that ONLY CHRIST saves the sinner from hell, not the actions of the sinner, and offer up prayers of thanksgiving that you knew better that without your hearing of the gospel, your obedience to it, and your belief of it, Christ's work would have absolutely been inutile.

    Now, if somebody tells me he is a child of God and is a convert to Christ and practices witchcraft, I will give him a hearty kick in the butt.
     
  16. RAdam

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    If that Elder meant getting to heaven, yes I believe it. He was right.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I doubt any Baptist Pastor would have said that. What was the context?
     
    #17 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2011
  18. charles_creech78

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    How am I saying that? All I did was give you scripture! The scripture is saying it! Do you not think that God can't raise up someone to preach the gospel to all so all will know? How do you know that all have not heard the gospel? show me scripture because from now on that is all I am listening to. They have all heard but not all have obeyed! What did they not obey? The gospel of Jesus Christ!

    Do you believe Predestination? Does God really save some and send some to hell? Think about it if he did do that! Why in the world does the gospel need to be preached? There are ready saved! Why is the gospel preach? To save us. Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. It said whosoever calls!
    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent (THE ELECT)? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
    Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
    Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
    Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
     
  19. quantumfaith

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    I love the Bereans.
    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Who were started by Calvinists....LOL. Thanks
     

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