President Bush stated today at a press conference..

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Jailminister, Jul 30, 2003.

  1. Jailminister

    Jailminister
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Q Thank you, sir. Mr. President, many of your supporters believe that homosexuality is immoral. They believe that it's been given too much acceptance in policy terms and culturally. As someone who's spoken out in strongly moral terms, what's your view on homosexuality?

    THE PRESIDENT: Yes, I am mindful that we're all sinners, and I caution those who may try to take the speck out of their neighbor's eye when they got a log in their own. I think it's very important for our society to respect each individual, to welcome those with good hearts, to be a welcoming country. On the other hand, that does not mean that somebody like me needs to compromise on an issue such as marriage. And that's really where the issue is heading here in Washington, and that is the definition of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman. And I think we ought to codify that one way or the other. And we've got lawyers looking at the best way to do that.

    The question here is this. Bush stated
    Is it possible for someone who is practicing sin as a lifestyle to have a "good heart"?
     
  2. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Absolutely. [​IMG]
     
  3. latterrain77

    latterrain77
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi jailminister. You asked; "Is it possible for someone who is practicing sin as a lifestyle to have a "good heart"?" . Certainly! The President's comments were quick to remind us all about the "log" in our own eye if we should think otherwise. How true! And how terrific and joyful it is to finally hear a President quoting the inerrant Bible again - and with meaning too!

    By the way, did anyone notice that the President did not quote from a KJV Bible? He said "log" instead of "beam." He said "speck" instead of "mote." Does this mean that the President is an NASB man? (perhaps it's just his speech writer's preference). Thanks for the update jailminister. [​IMG] latterrain77
     
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    I appreciated the entire press conference. "W" was in rare form.

    Must remember that he is a politician first and must carefully word his statements. He will still get in all kinds of turmoil over what he said (did anyone listen to Dan Blather on CBS? He twisted it into a big anti-queer deal).

    Christians ought to stand behind him. Half a loaf is better than none!
     
  5. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    4,455
    Likes Received:
    1
    Now this is something that I can agree with President Bush on.

    I am quick to speak out when the President does something I do not agree with(which is most of the time), so I will say that I am proud of the position he has taken on this issue.

    Even a democrat can support the President when he is right. [​IMG]
     
  6. Jailminister

    Jailminister
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me start over with my point. Let's leave Bush out of this. The question is "can a person who is PRACTICING SIN as a lifestyle, have a GOOD HEART ?

    This is very important question.
     
  7. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is it possible for sinners to have a "good heart"? No.

    Is it possible for the unrepentant to have a "good heart"? No.

    Is it possible to reject God's Word and have a "good heart"? No.

    Being fully aware of the beam/log/timber in my own eye does not mean that the speck/mote/sliver in your eye is OK. It means that I have no right to feel superior/arrogant/proud but, the mote is still a bad/evil/wicked thing.

    Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
     
  8. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Absolutely! [​IMG] In the relative sense in which we use the word. As far as being a kind, compassionate person. Such a person may be kinder and more compassionate and be more self-sacrificial toward his fellow man, good in that sense, than you are, Jailminister, or me.
     
  9. Jailminister

    Jailminister
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    The problem is that if we believe that a person that has a lifestyle of sin and can have a "good Heart", then what good does the gospel do for them. The person who has a lifestyle of sin can not have a good heart.
     
  10. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    I totally disagree. A person can have a good heart, as I defined the common usage of the term earlier, but not be converted yet.
     
  11. Wisdom Seeker

    Wisdom Seeker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    5,702
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is it possible for someone who is practicing sin as a lifestyle to have a "good heart"? </font>[/QUOTE]I think you totally twisted that statement. It appears that he meant us. And I agree, we should, welcome people, with a good heart. That is what Christians should do, but so very often don't do.
     
  12. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think so. I think he is referring to anyone who does well by his fellow man.
     
  13. Wisdom Seeker

    Wisdom Seeker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    5,702
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think if you look at the context of the question and what the President said in answer to that question, the emphasis isn't on "good hearts" of Homosexuals but on not judging any sinner as being more of a transgressor than ourselves.

    I have great respect that President Bush isn't willing to compromise his religious beliefs and was willing to express them without apology. He has been targetted by many organizations for his Biblical doctrine as being nothing more than his own prejudice.

    Whitehouse Transcripts

    Are we going to add our critisisms to that of the secular society? Are we going to ban together with the Gay and Lesbian community and other organizations against our President for using the generous characterisation of "Good hearts"?

    Must we find fault in everything He says? We should be grateful that there is a Christian in the White house, and yet...we find fault with wording and intent. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Jailminister

    Jailminister
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wisedom seeker, I believe you are wrong. He is referring to those who have sin in their life and is practicng that sin. If a person is an abortionist, yet occasionally does some good, does that mean the abortionist has a good heart. If a pedophile, does some good, does that mean he could have a good heart, also. I just don't see how a person that is practicing sin as a lifestyle could ever have a good heart until they come to Christ. This why this question is so important. If we can accept a person as "good" yet they are involved with a lifestyle that God calls an abomination, then we should be able to see how far we have come from what God wants us to be. I am not saying to not witness to the unsaved, but I am saying that we should not accept their lifestyle just because they do some good sometime.
     
  15. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is correct. We cannot condone a sinful lifestyle, even though they may do more good than you do, Jailminister, or I do. [​IMG]
     
  16. G. M. Ward

    G. M. Ward
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    G.W. was simply saying, lets not judge the sinner, but lets do all we can to stop the sin….
     
  17. PastorGreg

    PastorGreg
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2000
    Messages:
    794
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, wisdom seeker, we have to be concerned with wording and intent. The Bush II presidency has been a tremendous illustrator of the reticence of Christians to reason, and to think Biblically. GW had, at the 2000, Republican national convention the first openly gay featured speaker in Rep. convention history. He has appointed openly practicing gays to high office. His statement in the press conference reveals His views of what God sees as an abomination. Bush sees people with specks in their eyes and good hearts. Who's right, God or GW? His conservative rhetoric has caused Christians to not think and not think biblically, to the point that when he makes a clearly anti-scriptural statement like this one, some deny that he said what he said.
     
  18. Brett

    Brett
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't really see the difference between those who practise a sinful lifestyle (IE, homosexuality) or those who just sin (IE, everyone).

    Everybody sins. But there are those who try their best to refrain from sinning, and these are the people who have a "good heart".
     
  19. Jailminister

    Jailminister
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bret, Do you really not see the difference between practicing SIN as a LIFESTYLE and those who slip up and sin occassionally. You might need to pray about that before you answer. There is a difference.
     
  20. HS

    HS
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Where in the Bible does it say you are to be accepted into brotherhood if you are a sinner but have a good heart? But being accepted into society, is a whole different story. We can't assume the President is telling Christians to accept homosexuals because they have a good heart, he was saying to accept them as fellow citizens but not as marriage candidates as defined by our religious traditions.

    I have to agree with the President on this issue, marriage is a religious ceremony and ritual. The State has nothing to do with the spiritual part of bonding a man and woman; they only deal with the legal and tax aspect of the religious ritual God calls "marriage". If the State decides it is OK for homosexuals to legally bond, then the State needs to call it something other than our term of "marriage". We don't need the State changing our doctrine/definitions for tax and legal reasons.
     

Share This Page

Loading...