Presidential Eligibility: What "natural born citizen" means

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Jon Roland at Austin Constitution Meetup, 2013/08/20, presents the evidence for the original meaning of "natural born citizen" as an eligibility requirement for the office of President.

     
  2. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Does this mean Ted Cruz isn't eligible to hold the office of POTUS?
     
  3. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,643
    Likes Received:
    158
    Doesn't matter what Jon Roland thinks the Founding Fathers meant. What matters is how the term is understood today and that makes his argument mute. Also the original Constitution does not define "natural born," and thus the courts have done so.

    Eight presidents would have been unconstitutionally elected if Jon was correct:

    George Washington (born February 22, 1732)

    John Adams (born October 30, 1735)

    Thomas Jefferson (born April 13, 1743)

    James Madison (born March 16, 1751)

    James Monroe (born April 28, 1758)

    Andrew Jackson (born March 15, 1767)

    John Quincy Adams (born July 11, 1767)

    William Henry Harrison (born February 9, 1773)

    Martin Van Buren (December 5, 1782) (see update below)

    Zachary Taylor (born November 24, 1784) see update below
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...Presidents-WEREN-T-BORN-IN-THE-UNITED-STATES#

    You say there is an exception clause for most of these folk. True, but the birthers insist that is not a valid argument.


    The Legal Information Institute defines natural born as:

    The summer I worked in Moscow a young American couple, serving as missionaries in Siberia, stayed at the seminary several days. There were there to register their newborn at the American Embassy, thus ensuring the child was an American citizen even thought that child had been born in Siberia.
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    26,806
    Likes Received:
    78
    We have one child and five grandchildren who were born here and became US citizens at birth. One son married a Scottish gal. Their children would have to apply for US citizenship. I have a grandson born as a US citizen in Germany.

    My difficulty here is that for a lot of folks if they could only have proved that the president was born in Kenya it would have made him ineligible and yet it doesn't seem to be a problem for Ted Cruz, born in Canada, with a naturalised Cuban born father.
     
  5. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    That is difficult to understand isn't it? Maybe it has something to do with that "R" next to his name.
     
  6. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    That's right Crabby the US Constitution and those who created it isn't the authority here dailykos.com is.

    The burden of proof is on Obama and so far the proof he provided is as fake as a three dollar bill and yet there he is still acting like he's president.

    What does that prove? Neither party is interested in upholding the constitution or following the law. That's all.
     
    #6 poncho, Oct 30, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  7. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    If Cruz wins the election will his title be Prime Minister of the United States?
     
  8. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,215
    Likes Received:
    1,317
    There are two types of citizenship. Natural born, and naturalized.

    Natural born is any person born here (jus soli = right of the soil) or the child of a citizen born on foreign soil (jus sanguinis = right of blood).

    Naturalized is a person born a citizen of another country who completes the process by which U.S.citizenship is granted to a foreign citizen or national after he or she fulfills the requirements established by Congress in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

    Even if President Obama was born in Kenya (he wasn't - he was born in Hawaii and thus has jus soli natural born citizenship) his mother was still a natural born citizen so he has natural born citizenship via jus sanguinis.

    The same is true of Ted Cruz. His mother was a natural born citizen so he has natural born citizenship via jus sanguinis.
     
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,215
    Likes Received:
    1,317
    As much as I dislike him and his corrupt administration he is a natural born citizen and proved it many, many years ago.

    Obama birth certificate.jpg
     
  10. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Nice but it has been shown to be fake. That's fraud. More specifically it's fraud against the United States.

    I disagree abut Cruz. He is not a natural born citizen. His mother's naturalization makes him a citizen at birth that's not the same as a natural born citizen.

    But as Hillary Clinton said "at this point what does it matter" the government and the courts only follow the law when it suits them. And the average everyday citizen is to busy working to paying the mortgage and putting beans and bacon on the table to worry about such things.

    They just want someone that tells them what they want to hear better than the others to win.
     
    #10 poncho, Oct 31, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2015
  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2005
    Messages:
    12,215
    Likes Received:
    1,317
    No, it has not been shown to be a fake. The Hawaii Department of Health, which is the custodian of such vital records, has attested to the validity of the birth certificate.
    Yes, he is. There are only two types of citizen, Natural Born and Naturalized. He is Natural Born on the basis of Jus Sanguinis.
    He mother was not naturalized. She is a Natural Born Citizen by both Jus Soli and Jus Sanguinis.
    Yep. A Jus Sanguinis Natural Born Citizen.
    Exactly the same. Only two types. Natural Born and Naturalized.

    I think your tinfoil hat may be on too tight. It is cutting off the blood circulation to your brain.
     
  12. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Nope it's been shown to be fake.

    The only problem for Obama is that numerous electronic document experts have shown, using steps that anyone can repeat with if they have the proper software, that the document the White House so proudly uploaded is not simply a scanned version of an original paper document. Instead, it’s what’s called a “layered” document. A document that’s scanned will have only one layer, which is the image itself. A “layered,” electronically manipulated document will show one electronic addition after another. The White House’s birth certificate PDF has nine layers. This was an assembled electronic document, not a scanned paper document.

    http://mrconservative.com/2013/07/21971-10-facts-that-suggest-obamas-birth-certificate-is-fake/



    Of course "The Hawaii Department of Health, which is the custodian of such vital records, has attested to the validity of the birth certificate."

    They're all probably familiar with the name Vince Foster.

    It's a fake. And it's a very poorly created fake at that. I know how incredible it sounds that Obama would actually lie about his BC. It's equally incredible to believe that the Hawaii Department of Health could be induced to provide false statements by the Obama justice department. Their record of honest dealing and adherence to the law is second to none.

    As far as Cruz goes I'll take your word that you're more of an expert on citizenship than the expert on citizenship in my video.
     
    #12 poncho, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,250
    Likes Received:
    619
    Do you have any idea how simplistic and erroneous this explanation is? If this were a layered document (and I doubt that it is) it would have to be deliberately made to be discovered as such. In other words you want us to believe that Obama created this document so it could be dissected and discovered to be fake.

    When a layered document (or image) is assembled the last thing that is typically done is to output it as a finished, secure and locked single layer. Why? Because the author doesn't want someone else to tamper with it. In other words, an assembled electronic document can be made to look like a bona fide scanned document.

    Alternatively it is ridiculously easy to print a hard copy of a layered document on a piece of paper and then scan it into a pdf file. Voila! Instant one layer pdf document.

    The most likely explanation is that your so-called experts are clinging to their conspiracy theory and are blowing smoke about the document having fake layers.



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
  14. poncho

    poncho
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Yeah yeah I know. Next to you and your vastly superior skills Joe's panel of experts and investigators appear as just tiny minded blundering conspiracy theorists hating on Obama.
     
    #14 poncho, Nov 1, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
  15. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,250
    Likes Received:
    619
    Appeal to authority fallacy.

    Anyway, what happens when you print out a layered document onto a piece of paper? You get a single layer document. And then you scan that into a pdf file. Done.

    You would have us believe that the intelligence services that you say brings us deceptive false flag operations and stage other elaborate ruses do not know how to make a convincing fake document.
     

Share This Page

Loading...