Preterism versus Futurism

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by JohnDBaptiste, Jul 30, 2015.

  1. JohnDBaptiste

    JohnDBaptiste
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    Under the title "Any Dispensationalist in the House?" I responded to the OP:

    Answer me this first (and I will answer your question so well you'll abandon the preterist heresy):

    Can you prove God commanded Solomon to build the first Jewish Temple?

    I feel this deserves its own thread.
     
  2. OldRegular

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    The first Jewish Temple? Solomon did not build the first Jewish temple!
     
  3. Jordan Kurecki

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    Um... yes he did...
     
  4. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    I'm not a Preterist and I don't know what level of proof you're looking for, but how about 1 Chron. 28:6, 10?
    Can you prove that God disapproved of Solomon building the Temple? You might want to include 2 Chron. 7:12 in your reply.
     
  5. OldRegular

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    Ummm! No he didn't! He built the first temple for the nation of Israel. Read the origin of the word Jew.
     
  6. vooks

    vooks
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    For the record am no Preterist so your charge of heresy is uninformed as only your ignorance can afford :laugh:

    God never commanded Solomon to build nothing. The temple was King David's idea. God approved of it but stopped him, postponed it till Solomon came to power
     
    #6 vooks, Jul 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2015
  7. JohnDBaptiste

    JohnDBaptiste
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    Spamming are you?
     
  8. JohnDBaptiste

    JohnDBaptiste
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    1 Chronicles 28 is couched in questionable language (no doubt what the elderly David uttered), accurate to his claims... but were the claims true?

    Was it because he shed blood that he was not the man to build the Temple?

    1 Chronicles 28:3 clearly says it was.

    2 Chronicles 7:12 shows that the LORD conceded to accepting the Temple Solomon built as a house of sacrifice. This he did in the same way he conceded to grant Israel a king (1 Samuel 8). But the idea was David's and Solomon acted on David's misinterpretation of 2 Samuel 7:12-13 (as David echoed in 1 Chronicles 28:6).

    2 Samuel 7:12–13 (AV) 12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
    13He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

    Now observe the LORD's interpretation:

    Zechariah 6:12–13 (AV)
    12And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
    13Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

    The Messiah Jesus is the heir of David that was to build the Temple of God... out of the living believers:

    1 Peter 2:3–10 (AV)
    3If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
    4To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
    5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
    6Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
    7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
    8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
    9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
    10Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    1 Corinthians 3:16–18 (AV)
    16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
    18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

    And there is no mention of the Temple in Hebrews 8:5.

    Yet Solomon went right on building the Temple and sacrificing animals every few steps in its dedication (contrary to the Levitical Law). And God made concession to deal with Israel through the Temple system from that point onward...

    From that point onward the Jews were seldom in God's good graces for any length of time. And though the name of the Lord was associated with it, Jesus did not venerate it. In fact he treated it as though it was the house of his father in name only. In Matthew 24 when the disciples marveled at the Temple complex courtesy of Herod the Idumean, Jesus brushed it off and focused in on its future destruction.

    When you read the Sermon on the mount, Matthew 13, and Matthew 23 as State of the Kingdom addresses, you find that God's plan had been botched and bungled by man since day one. Here to set the record straight, Jesus put the Law of Moses back on course and paved the way for the New Covenant in his blood the blood of the Testator (Hebrews 9:16-17). See the Gospel in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

    So the OP's question in the other thread about Ezekiel's Temple and returning to the Law of Moses is making a good point but missing the purpose of them.

    Daniel 9:27 (AV)
    27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    The translators that try to redefine "covenant" as a peace treaty or the like divert from the correlation of the "covenant" and the sacrifice and oblation in the text. He will confirm it with everyone (the world) for 7 years BUT reneges in the midst or middle (the Hebrew word is commonly used to indicate "half").

    Means the Mosaic Law will be back in force, the Temple will be rebuilt... but obviously not according to God's plan. But in the end it will serve his purposes. All things eventually do.
     
    #8 JohnDBaptiste, Jul 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2015
  9. JohnDBaptiste

    JohnDBaptiste
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    An interesting study about the Lord's return and the Temple described in Ezekiel:

    Ezekiel 43 (AV)
    1Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
    2And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
    3And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
    4And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
    5So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
    6And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
    7And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
    8In their setting of their threshold by my thresholds, and their post by my posts, and the wall between me and them, they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.
    9Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.
    10Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
    11And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.
    12This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.
    13And these are the measures of the altar after the cubits: The cubit is a cubit and an hand breadth; even the bottom shall be a cubit, and the breadth a cubit, and the border thereof by the edge thereof round about shall be a span: and this shall be the higher place of the altar.
    14And from the bottom upon the ground even to the lower settle shall be two cubits, and the breadth one cubit; and from the lesser settle even to the greater settle shall be four cubits, and the breadth one cubit.
    15So the altar shall be four cubits; and from the altar and upward shall be four horns.
    16And the altar shall be twelve cubits long, twelve broad, square in the four squares thereof.
    17And the settle shall be fourteen cubits long and fourteen broad in the four squares thereof; and the border about it shall be half a cubit; and the bottom thereof shall be a cubit about; and his stairs shall look toward the east.
    18And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon.
    19And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord GOD, a young bullock for a sin offering.
    20And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
    21Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.
    22And on the second day thou shalt offer a kid of the goats without blemish for a sin offering; and they shall cleanse the altar, as they did cleanse it with the bullock.
    23When thou hast made an end of cleansing it, thou shalt offer a young bullock without blemish, and a ram out of the flock without blemish.
    24And thou shalt offer them before the LORD, and the priests shall cast salt upon them, and they shall offer them up for a burnt offering unto the LORD.
    25Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat for a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish.
    26Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves.
    27And when these days are expired, it shall be, that upon the eighth day, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.
     

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