Pretribulation's denials

DeafPosttrib,

There is a difference between tribulation, tribulations, and Tribulation.

The first is singular. The second is plural. The last, which is capitolized, refers to the time descibed in chapters 4 through 19 of Revelation.

You are right. Tribulation and wrath are not the same. But you are taking what we call the period descrided in Revelation as a basis for denying that Christians will not be here during that time frame.

It is called the Tribulation because of the words of Jesus ( Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.). But the Tribulation will be the time that God's wrath is poured out upon the world.

Yes, or no? Are Christians appointed to God's wrath?

Yes=being a Christian has no meaning as far as God will be concerned regarding the Tribulation period.

No=Christians spared from wrath, i.e. either miracuously spared during the entire Tribulation period (not mentioned in the bible), or raptured before time.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Sorry Brother Trotter.
Here is a summary of scripture showing
my understanding of five different kinds
of "tribulation". Note that the hints above,
should i honor them, would have me add all
scriptual details to this post:

------------------------

The Five Tribulations
of the Holy Bible
Contrasted and compared
by ed

The following terms are used in the Holy Bible to denote
tribulation: tribulation, distress, afliction, trouble

1. tribulation due to the human condition
WHO: all the sons and daughters of Adam & Eve
WHAT: heartaches, pains, troubles, distresses, disappointements,
affliction, trouble, ordeal, suffering, wretchedness,
misfortune, worry, care, hardship, agony,
anguish, torment, adversity,
travail of a woman giving birth, disease, cancer,
famine, plague, fatigue, depression, etc.
WHEN: From Adam's explusion from the Garden of Eden
to the day a new heaven & new earth is created by
God, AKA: time as opposed to eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: God only knows why, it is just the way things are,
maybe it has to do with the fall of man in the Garden of Eden?

2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
WHO: those Christians chosen by the Holy Spirit for special honor
WHAT: persecution by non-Christians: Pagans, athiests, and
even people who call themselves "Christian" but aren't
WHEN: 33AD to the start of the millinnial kingdom of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: many are called to follow Jesus;
few are chosen to the honor of the spiritual
gift of martyrdom

3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles
WHO: Yisrael dispersed among the goy
WHAT: persecution by non-Christians: Pagans, athiests, and
usually people who call themselves "Christian" but aren't
WHEN: during the time of the Gentiles
(from Mount Calvary to Mount Olivet)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Messiah Jesus

4. "The Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antichrist
WHO: citizens of the world
WHAT: a fate worse than death (Rev 6:15-17, Rev 9:6)
WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (first half)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Lord Jesus

5. "The Great Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antrichrist
WHO: people who take the mark of the beast
WHAT: the wrath of God
WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (last half)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Lord Jesus

Here are the names/descriptions of the Tribulation
Period found in the O.T.:

The tribulation in Deut 4:30
the day of Israel's calamity in Deut 32:35, Obadiah 1:12-14
the indignation in Isaiah 26:20, Daniel 11:36
the overflowing scourge in Isaiah 28:15,18
The Lord's strange work in Isaiah 28:21
The year of recompence in Isaiah 34:8
The day of vengeance in Isaiah 34:8, 35:4, 61:2
The time of Jacob's Trouble in Jeremiah 30:7
The day of darkness in Joel 2:2, Amos 5:18, 20; Zephaniah 1:15
See also Zephaniah 1:15-16.:

 

I am make this post much shorter this time.

Many of you want to intepreting tribulation and tribulations into different stages and events. Yet all of these are same definition.

Israel already face tribulations during Old Testament Period. Was Israel rapture during Old Testament Period?

Same with Church, Church already through tribulations, Church is not rapture yet.

Christians shall not rest from them till Christ comes with his angels - 2 Thess. 1:4-10.

The Bible does not promise us, that we shall escapse from tribulation and persecution.

'Pre' means before. Pretribulation means before tribulation. Pretribulation rapture means rapture before tribulation.

If suppose, they are correct. Then, that means the Earl Church never never taste or experince of tribulation and persecution. Then something wrong with them.

There are so overwhelm, that Christians are already face tribulations and persecutions throughout centuries of the church history, and even today.

Pretribulation does not make sense to me, that the Church never face a tribulation or persecution in the past. Church already face many tribulations and persecutions, prove that pretribulation doctrine is a false.

Wrath does not equal with tribulation. Both are different meaning.

Many pretribbers know that. Yet they saying both are equal event. Bible never saying it. None verse anywhere in the Revelation saying the wrath shall pour down upon Saints. Book of Revelation tells us, Saints shall face tribulations and persecutions first.

Christ cannot come till we face tribulations and persecutions first - John 16:33, Acts 14:22, 1 Thess. 3:3-4, Matt 24:29-31, and 2 Thess 1:4-7.

Why would not you accept the facts from the tribulation teaching that we must go through tribulations first before Christ? Aren't you willing suffering for Christ? Where is your faith? Aren't you a soldier of Christ? Aren't you a worthy called, Christian?

Look at Christ's example. He suffered for us so much, so, therefore, we should follow his step - 1 Peter 2:21.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Don't think so.
The Bible gives a wealth of information.
To trivialize the details is reject
the good news God has for us:
We that belong to Jesus in the Church
Age may not ever die: the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection.

Expanded pretrib timeline:

0. church age continues

1. rapture/resurrection

2. The 7-year Tribulation Period

2a. Starting events
2a1. The seven year AC/Israel treaty

2b. the first half (3.5years) - the Tribulation period
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2b1. The Seal Judgments (Revelation 6)
2b2. Rise of the Antichrist
2b3. Ten nation confederacy (Daniel 2:42-44;
---- Daniel 7:7,24; Rev 12:3; Rev 17:12,16)
2b4. The ministry of Elijah (Rev 11:3, Malachi 4:5,6)
2b5. Ministry of the 144,000 Israeli (Rev 7)
2b6. The Trumpet judgements/wrath (Rev 8-9)
2b7. The false church (ecclesiastical Babylon)
----- (Revelation 17:1-6)

2c. the mid-tribulation events
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2c1. The Little Scroll (Rev 10)
2c2. AC killed (Rev 13:3)
2c3. Satan cast out of heaven (Rev 12:7,9)
2c4. Resurrection of AC (Rev 13:3,4)
2c5. 3 kings killed, 7 submit to AC
2c6. destruction by AC of false church (Rev 7:16)
2c7. Death/resurrection of two witnesses
2c8. Worship of the AC starts (Rev 13:3,4,8)
2c9. Rise of the False Prophet (Rev 13:11-15)
2c10. MOB=mark of the beast (Rev 13:16-18)
2c11. 7-year covenant broken (Isaiah 28:18; Daniel 11:41)
2c12. AOD=abomination of Desolation
----- (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:4)
2c13. Persecution of the Jews begins
----- (Rev 12:1-6)

2d. the second half (3.5years) - the Great Tribulation period
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2d1. the Bowl Judgments/wrath (Rev 16)
2d2. protection of the Jewish Remnant
---- (Micah 2:12; Matthew 24:16; Revelation 12:6,14)
2d3. Armageddon (these items are in time sequence):

2d3a. - assembling the allies of AC
------- (Rev 16:12-16)
2d3b. - destruction of Babylon
------- (Isaiah 13; Jeremiah 50-51; Revelation 18)
2d3c. - Fall of Jerusalem
------- (Micah 4:11-5:1; Zachariah 12:1-9; 14:1,2)
2d3d. - Armies of AC at Bozrah (Jeremiah 49:13,14)
2d3e. - Conversion of Israel complete
------- (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25-27)

(2e the end of the Trib, which is the Second Advent
---- of Jesus to defeat the AC and set up the MK)

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
3a. postrib gathering and resurrection of the trib saints
3b. antichrist and false prophet are cast alive into the Lake of Fire
- 19:20-22!
3c. The Judgment of the Nations= Matthew 25:31-46

4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom

5. Satan loosed for a little season to deceive the Nations - Revelation 20:7-8!

6. The final battle of God and Magog! - Revelation 20:8-9!

7. Satan cast into the lake of Fire. - Revelation 20:10!

8. The Great White Throne of Judgment! - Revelation 20:11-15!

9.new heaven & new earth - 2 Peter 3:10

10. The Eternal Kingdom! The New Heavens and New Earth
and the New Jerusalem! - Revelation 21:1-3!

 

Doublespeak.

 

"tribulations" in KJV:

1Sa 10:19 (nKJV):
But you have today rejected your God, who Himself saved you
from all your adversities and your tribulations; and you have
said to Him, 'No, set a king over us!' Now therefore, present
yourselves before the Lord by your tribes and by your clans."

3,000 years before the Tribulation Period, has to be:
1. tribulation due to the human condition

Ac 14:22 (nKJV):
strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to
continue in the faith, and saying, "We must through many
tribulations enter the kingdom of God."

The Kingdom of God is with us, not all are persecuted,
must be the most likly:
1. tribulation due to the human condition

Ac 20:23 (nKJV):
except that the Holy Spirit testifies in every city, saying
that chains and tribulations await me.

Could be any of the first three:
1. tribulation due to the human condition
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles

Ro 5:3 (nKJV):
And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing
that tribulation produces perseverance;

Most likely: Could be any of the first three:
1. tribulation due to the human condition

2Co 6:4 (nKJV):
But in all things we commend ourselves as ministers of God: in
much patience, in tribulations, in needs, in distresses,

Could be any of the first three:
1. tribulation due to the human condition
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles

Eph 3:13 (nKJV):
Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations
for you, which is your glory.

Most likely: 1. tribulation due to the human condition

Could be any of the first three:
1. tribulation due to the human condition
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles

2Th 1:4 (nKJV):
so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God
for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and

tribulations that you endure,

Could be any of the first three:
1. tribulation due to the human condition
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles

Heb 10:33 (nKJV):
partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and
tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those

who were so treated

Could be any of the first three:
1. tribulation due to the human condition
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles


"tribulation" in nKJV:

1Sa 26:24 (nKJV):
And indeed, as your life was valued much this day in my eyes,
so let my life be valued much in the eyes of the Lord, and let
Him deliver me out of all tribulation."

1. tribulation due to the human condition>
surley not 3,000+ years before futurists Trib Period
or 1,000+ years before before a-mill Trib Period

Mt 13:21 (nKJV):
yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while.
For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the
word, immediately he stumbles.

Most likely:
1. tribulation due to the human condition

Mt 24:9 (nKJV):
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and
you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.

Got to be:
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
or 3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles

Mt 24:21 (nKJV):
For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been
since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever

shall be.

This follows the AOD, it is: 5. "The Great Tribulation period"
of those ruled by the Antrichrist


Mt 24:29 (nKJV):
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will
be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars
will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be

shaken.

After 5. "The Great Tribulation period" of those ruled by the

Antrichrist, the Lord will come in power and glory to
defeat the Antichrist.

Mr 4:17 (nKJV):
and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a
time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for
the word's sake, immediately they stumble.

Most likely: 2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom, which is
persecution

Mr 13:19 (nKJV):
For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not
been since the beginning of the creation which God created
until this time, nor ever shall be.

This is a paralell Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) passage
refering to: 5. "The Great Tribulation period" of those ruled
by the Antrichrist

Mr 13:24 (nKJV):
"But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be
darkened, and the moon will not give its light;

MOD, again: 5. "The Great Tribulation period" of those ruled
by the Antrichrist

Joh 16:33 (nKJV):
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have
peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good
cheer, I have overcome the world."

One of these: 1. tribulation due to the human condition
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles
but not: 4. "The Tribulation period" of those ruled by the

Antichrist
5. "The Great Tribulation period" of those ruled by the
Antrichrist

Ro 2:9 (nKJV):
tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil,
of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

Ro 5:3 (nKJV):
And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing
that tribulation produces perseverance;

Most likely, 1. tribulation due to the human condition, which
happen to everybody

Ro 8:35 (nKJV):
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall
tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or
nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Could be any of the first three

Ro 12:12 (nKJV):
rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing
steadfastly in prayer;

Most likely,m 1. tribulation due to the human condition, which
happens to everybody

2Co 1:4 (nKJV):
who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to
comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with
which we ourselves are comforted by God.

Most likely is the most common: 1. tribulation due to the
human condition

2Co 7:4 (nKJV):
Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my
boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am

exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.

Could be any of the first three:
1. tribulation due to the human condition
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles
Paul was NOT in the tribulation periods.

1Th 3:4 (nKJV):
For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we
would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.

Paul suffered from the three conditions:
Could be any of the first three:
1. tribulation due to the human condition
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles
Paul did not suffer from either of the two tribulation
periods:



2Th 1:6 (nKJV):
since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with
tribulation those who trouble you,

Why should God wait until the Tribulation Periods
to "repay"? Probably: 1. tribulation due to the human
condition

Re 1:9 (nKJV):
I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation
and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island
that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the
testimony of Jesus Christ.

Could be any of the first three:
1. tribulation due to the human condition
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles
Paul did not suffer from either of the two tribulation periods

Re 2:9 (nKJV):
I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are
rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews
and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Could be any of the first three:
1. tribulation due to the human condition
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles


Re 2:10 (nKJV):
Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer.
Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison,
that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten
days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown
of life.

Likely: Could be any of the first three:
2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
or 3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles

Re 2:22 (nKJV):
Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit
adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent
of their deeds.

Likely 1. tribulation due to the human condition

Re 7:14 (nKJV):
And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These
are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed
their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

4. "The Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antichrist.
These avoid great tribulation by being jerked out
of the world when Jesus comes to get His own.

 

DeafPostTrib: "4. Pretrib deny the whole
context of Matthew chapter 24
is give instructions and warning for Church."

You confuse pretrib and postrib.

In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
ask three questions:

(in the order asked):
1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
2. What is the sign of His coming?
3. What is the sign of the end of age?

Jesus answers these questions in
Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
some parables.

Here are the answers of Jesus in the
order the questions were asked:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

Here is a summary of the answers
in the order in which events will occur:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Soon, it was in 70AD

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
No signs preceeding the end of the age

2. What is the sign of His coming?
The Sign of His coming will be the
Tribulation period.

Recall the Greek language in which this
Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
So many ands, buts, and other connectors
give the outline. I believe the major
outline to be:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
Rapture/resurrection which ends the
current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
etc&gt

Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
church age even up to this time.
Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues <---you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Matthew 24 gives:
warning for the Church in the Church age
warning for the coming signless
pretribulation rapture/resurrection
Warning to the unsaved about the coming tribulation period

Postribs deny that any saved individual will
ever enter the Tribulation Period.

 

Apostle Paul does not saying it. You just added of your own words - Rev. 22:18.
</font>[/QUOTE]I explain the scripture and that is adding to the Word of God?

You, Sir, are operating way above
your paygrade here. Unless God died and
left you in charge i recommend your
quick appology. Remember that the judgement
you judge will be used to judge you.
You explain the scripture also, you know.

 

ed quote:
---------------------------------------------
... Church age
born-again, ransomed, redeemed, Christian elect
saints ...
----------------------------------------------
Christ does not saying it. You just added word unto Christ's word. - Rev. 22:18.

I try to be clear in what i say and you
damn me? Better read up on Matthew 7:6

Who do you think Jesus is praying for in John 15:18-20?

 

Brother Ed: I note that in an earlier post you place II Peter 3:10 after the Great White Throne. (By the way, so do I, so far as I have any outline of something I haven't experienced.)

But I thought the "thief coming" was supposed to be the "rapture"? And if the Great White Throne has already happened, how can "the day of the Lord" come "as a thief in the night," unexpectedly? And in II Pet. 3:14 it is believers who are warned to be diligent in view of this end of history, "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation" (v. 15).

It just seems to me that it is not well for us to be "wise above that which is written," going into great details about events yet future so that our full charts (from whatever view) have to be "adjusted" to fit certain Scriptures, or else we "adjust" the Scriptures that don't seem to fit our view. Incidentally, none of the posters yet have commented from either pre-trib, post-, or even mid-, on Matt. 11:20-24 and 12:38-42, where saved and lost, Jew and Gentile alike are in one judgment on one day. How is it that "day" and "hour" are symbolic in literal books like Matthew, but "1000 years" MUST be literal in a book full of admitted symbolism?

Best in Him - Charles - Ro.8:28

 

DeafPostTrib: "Pretribulation does not make sense
to me, that the Church never face
a tribulation or persecution in the past."

You are confusing pretrib and postrib.
Remember, pretrib is the one you say you
don't believe and postrib is the one you
say you do believe.

Of course pretribulation rapture/resurrection
doesn't make sense to you. You don't have
the first inkling of what it is all about.

Take my 5 Tribulation post above. You
still have not figured out that it is my
simplification of scriputre on the matter.
It shows the differences by when, what, who,
how, etc.

Pretribs deny God has only one church.

God has two churches.
Prior to the resurrection of Christ God
has one
church: the Jewish Israeli elect saints.
During the Church age (time of the gentiles)
God has one church: the church age redeemed
born-again Christian elect saints
(this is composed mostly of gentiles but
there are some Jews who believe that
Jesus is Messiah and are called Messanic Jews).
At the pretribulation rapture/resurrection
(a miracle event God produces on who He will
and when He will and the why He wills has been
shown that it will cause a maximum
number of Jews to be saved.
During the Tribulation Judgement Period
God will save a lot of Jewish Israeli elect saints.

After the Second Coming, Jesus will
populate the Millinnial Kingdom with
selected resurrected church age redeemed
born-again Christian elect saints and surviving
Jewish Israeli elect saints and gentiles
selected in the sheep and goat judgement.

Beautiful plan, eh. But this is just
a summary and does not show all the scripture
that supports the doctrine that the Holy Spirit
has revealed to me.

 

R. Charles Blair: //Incidentally, none of the posters yet have commented from either pre-trib, post-, or even mid-, on Matt. 11:20-24 and 12:38-42, where saved and lost, Jew and Gentile alike are in one judgment on one day.//

Don't forget Daniel 12 which also has one resurrection for everybody.

From where i live, 24 miles away (if i get high enough)
i can see the buildings in downtown Oklahoma
City. They look like one building.
If i get closer, may 6 miles away, it looks
like three buildings. Get down in it and it
is a dozen tall buildings.

Same way with prophecy. Lots easier to see
better when you are "down in it".

I wrote a writing, but lot it on the rest
of your questions, Brother R. Charles Blair
but lot it before i could post it.

 

Ed,

THAT'S CORRECT!

Cannot you reading Dan. 12:2 speaks of one resurrection?

Pretrib believes in several resurrections for the saints.

The Bible never saying it. Bible teaches us, we all shall be resurrection on the last day - John 6:39,40,44, and 54. It does not saying there shall be 2555 days earlier before the second coming of Christ.

Christians' resurrection will follow the second coming of Christ on the last day - 1 Thess. 4:15-17

The resurrection cannot be occur yet till Christians shall face Antichrist first - Rev. 20:4-5.

John 5:27-29 tells us, Christ shall judge both quick and the dead on that hour - last day. It is the only one resurrection, and only one judgement day.

You saying, God have two churches.

Bible never saying God have two churches. You just added it in your own word.

Church means called out, chosen, assembly, congregation.

The best describe meaning of Church is called out.

Because, Abraham was the example that he was called out by God. He obeyed him. Abraham was the part of the Church.

Moses was called by God, go to Egypt to set Hebrews free from salvary.

1 Peter 2:9 is a perfect picture of the Church. It says, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath CALLED YOU OUT of darkeness into his marvellous light."

It is very clear speak of the Church, that we are God's chosen people, we are an holy nation, a special people, we are CALLED OUT of the darkeness, into his light.

God called Abraham out of idols and heathen people. God called Moses out of idols, and followed Him.

Also, Israel was called out by God to separate from the heathens and idols. Same as we are called out separate from darkeness and obey Christ's command.

God only have one church.

I am not a replacement theology. I understand what the Bible teaches us about Calvary. We are no longer divided between Jew and Gentile, both are unity together into ONE BODY OF CHRIST by Calvary - Eph. 2:12-16. Once we are united, no more divided again forever and ever. God only have one church. God have one family.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Wait, you changed subjects.
Daniel 12:2 speaks as though the just
and the unjust will be resurrected at
the same time. Then suddenly you talk
about one resurrection of the saints (just).
Revelation 20 speaks of the
resurrection of the just as one and
the resurrectionof the unjust as one
and they are seperated by 1,000 years.
Can't you see that that not every verse
says everything? the scripture has
to be rightly divided so we can add it together.

BTW Revelation 20 is not saying that
there are two resurrections. It is saying
that there is the first resurrection:
the resurrection of the just. It implies
(without saying) that there is a second
resurrection which is for the unjust.
We have to count them ourselvles.

first count:
1. resurrection

second count:
1. resurrection of the just
2. resurrection of the unjust

third count:
1. resurrection of the dead in Christ
2. resurrection of the Tribulation dead in Christ
3. resurrection of the unjust

fourth count:
1.resurrection of the O.T. elect saints
2.resurrection of the N.T. elect saints
3.resurrection of the Tribulation dead in Christ
4.resurrection of the unjust

 

BrumleyJ - "does Bible saying
five tribulations period"

I don't think you understood enough of what
I'm saying to ask the right question.

By "tribulation period" the following are meant:

1. the tribulation period is the first 3½-years of the time of the antichrist

2. the tribualtion period is all 7-years of the time of
the antichrist

3. the Great Tribulation Period is the last 3½-years
of the antichrist.

Note: the phrase "Tribulation Period" is not
used in the Bible. I use it because there are
probably six different things that are meant
by "tribulation" and "tribulations" in the Bible.
Four of them are terrible conditions,
Two of them are time periods of God's judgement
and punishment.

I listed three of the terrible conditions and
the two time periods in my writing "5 Tribualtions"
given above. There is also a punishment from
God tribulation that is put upon people, a wretched
condition.

 

None anywhere in the Bible saying 7 years of tribulation period. None anywhere in the Bible saying Antichrist shall reign for 84 months or 7 years.

Bible does not saying there are 5 types of tribulaiton. You just adding it. There are no difference between them, all are same definition. Bible does not promise us, that we shall escape form tribulation and persecutin. Bible teaches us, that we must go through tribulations, because Christ suffered for us, so, we should follow Christ's example.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Brother Ed - Thanks for at least noticiing my posts! I understand the "mountain top principle" you illustrate with Oklahoma City. But are you implying that Jesus had such a limited perspective that He made misleading statements?

Best -Charles - Ro. 8:28

 

Ed,

i will reply to you later my online is not work well i waiting for someone will come over my townhouse on tuesday to hook it up for me.

i using computer at work.

brumleyj
ps 27:1
amem