Pride...is it ok, or is it frowned upon in Christianity

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by trubeliever, Dec 2, 2007.

  1. trubeliever

    trubeliever
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    Hi all,

    I became a believer this past summer.

    I've run into a dilemma. I'm constantly learning more and more about christianity. But.....here is a situation that has arisen and I'm having a lot of trouble dealing with it.

    I am a professional classical, orchestral musician. When I say professional, I mean that I've dedicated my life to perfecting this craft. (I know....you can never perfect it...but I strive to be the best I can be and to do it in a dignified way). And, I make my living being a successful musician.

    The church asked me to help out with their music ministry. And, I said..ok. Now, the music ministry does a great job of ministry. But, as far as music goes, it's just very different and not the quality I'm accustomed too. It's not even in the same realm. Anyway....I got caught in a conversation with a worship leader who said some things that were offensive to me as far as my professionalism goes. I tried to let it go, but after a while, I had to explain that it was poor judgement for him to try and equate this church music with amateurs to a professional symphony musician. It's like comparing a kid in a go-cart to a nascar racer. That may seem cocky, but, there is that stark of a contrast. And this worship leader, being a very mediorcre musician can't truly tell the difference. It would be the equivilant of me telling a pastor how to preach.

    Anyway.....I have pride for what I do. I attended one of the worlds premier concervatories. I work very hard and am thankful for this wonderful God given talent. Am I wrong for feeling that way. Is it wrong for me to hold my pride up or should I let this person 'dumb' what I do down?
    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    I thank God He has drawn you out of darkness and into the light of the Jesus Christ and His salvation.

    Welcome to the BB.
    Playing professionally is quite different from playing in church, huh? (understatement I know)

    Don't let your pride let you do or say anything that will bring dishonor to Almighty God and the name of our Lord Jesus. Have great patience with these folks and work with them in love, and God will lift you up.

    The bottom line is, you are not playing for the church, or the music leader or the pastor. You are playing to God. God is the only one you need to be focused on and trying to please.

    Good luck

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. The Scribe

    The Scribe
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    Proverbs 11:1-3 (KJV)
    1: A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.
    2: When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
    3: The integrity of the upright shall guide them: but the perverseness of transgressors shall destroy them.

    :saint:
     
  4. ccrobinson

    ccrobinson
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    There are 2 different definitions of pride and they can get easily confused.

    Pride - inordinate self-esteem

    or

    Pride - a reasonable or justifiable self-respect

    It goes without saying which one is desirable.

    Canady had the best answer and I can't top it, so I'm going to repeat it.

     
  5. trubeliever

    trubeliever
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    Thanks to all for your help. I do believe that my pride in this manner is 100% justifiable self respect. There were things said by this worship leader that were straight out offensive, ignorant, and oozing of his lack or knowledge for music.

    We've since spoken and he has apoligized and felt that what he said came out wrong. I accept his apology and we said we'll sit down so I can explain what was offensive to me.

    Just trying to see if I'm justified in my self-protection and pride in my career. People are ignorant. But, I wouldn't think about telling him how to lead worship. That's not my gift. I think I should get the same respect.

    I will continue to pray about it and come to an understanding.
     
  6. Allan

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    I do not wish to sound offensive but I will say this, in reading your postings regarding the incident I must wonder if you present yourself the samy way you post.

    Though you may have been justified in being offended at the words from your music minister, you might want to remember couple of verses from scripture in your vast understanding of music.
    Yes, I would say your posts do lean toward an inordinant amout of self-superiority and gratitude for your achievement. That is a sinful pride. There is nothing wrong with knowing your abilities, but your ablilities make you no better in the eyes of God than your 'mediorcre' music leader and those 'amature' church musicians regardless of all your accomplishments.

    Those natural gifts are only there as long as God allows you to keep them. Remember the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. And do not presume you will always have them. You just might! but at the same time you just might not.


    Another thing for clarification dear brother, the music leader does not lead 'worship', he leads the music OF our worship.
     
    #6 Allan, Dec 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2007
  7. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
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    Hey trubeliever.

    It sounds like you have some real musical gifts and it will be exciting to see how God uses those gifts in the future. You have already received some wise counsel from canadyjd and Allan. I agree with them.

    It is great that you have “justifiable self respect” in your career but it sounds like you may want to mix in a dash of humility when dealing with others. You said of the worship leader:

    And
    It sounds like your comments are probably accurate. You need to realize that as a professional classical musician you are light years ahead of most of us in your musical ability and education. As you said, the worship leader probably can’t tell the difference and his comments are based on ignorance. Remember that ignorance can always be cured by education, it is stupidity that we are stuck with for life. This is the time for you to be a bigger person and grow a thick skin for abrasive comments. You can explain to him what you found offensive, but do so in a manner that says you still welcome and value his comments and help. Listen to what he has to say. He may not be able to teach you anything about music but he may be able to teach you much about ministry.

    Remember, music at church is very different from what you do for a living. It has a completely different purpose and is written and performed with different goals. Of course we should give our best to God and it sounds like you are in the unique position to make a huge difference in the quality of the music program of your church but you have to realize the difference. The musical ability and performance must, in this environment, take second place to the message.

    At the end of a classical performance there are times that the audience is left with a feeling of wonderment and they think, “Wow, what a musician,” or “What a singer,” or even, “What a conductor.” Then there are performances which I think are greater where the audience is left felling, “Wow, what a song.”

    When you perform or lead at church, when you pour your heart and soul out into a song that lifts up your savior and lord, I think your goal should be to leave the audience in wonder, not at the vocalist, musician, song or composer, but that you should leave them feeling, “Wow, what a God.” You want to set their minds and hearts on things above and prepare them to hear God's word.

    He must increase, but I must decrease (John 3:30)
     
  8. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Worship is not a time for exhibitionism. Paul commands simplicity in the worship of Christ, and that what you do should be understood by all and reasonably accessible. In other words, it should be music that is easily entreated, and something in which the unsophisticated worshippers can easily take part.

    This isn't to marginalize your education. (Well, in a way it does, because it's counted dung for the cause of Christ, but that's beside the point. [Well, maybe not, because if you were miffed by my dung statement, then that would be a point of pride.]) Anyway, to make music for worship simple requires someone at your level of musical expertise.

    Use your knowledge to make worship easy, not exhibitionistic or sophisticated. Use it to make yourself a better servant of the congregation.
     
    #8 Aaron, Dec 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2007
  9. johnjudge

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    As a self trained musician that has also made a living at what he loves, I think that we musicians....ALL musicians...have an element of pride because of what we do....

    But from your post, it seems you took some off handed comments from a fellow believer to heart. I would say bow out before it turns into something that will bring hard feelings between folks, no matter what...and pray hard! It worked for me.....
     
  10. blackbird

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    This sounds like some good advise----

    Let me use this illustration

    Have you ever watched some of those professional Boxing matches?? Ali verses "Smokin'' Joe Frasier or along those professional lines???

    What happens when they're sorta boxing along and they get all tangled up in each other's arms??---you've seen it---they'll throw their arms around each others neck or waist---

    When that happens---the Referee comes and seperates the two, doesn't he??? He literally throws himself between the two boxers---and each boxer honors the Referee and releases his tangled arms from around his opponent and backs off

    Friend---this happens too often in church settings--what the OP described in his post----the devil will see to it that church members get "tangled up" with each other over some trivial mess and cause friction

    When you find yourself "tangled up" with someone----let God's LOVE be the Referee that seperates(untangles) you from the other member---Let God's love stand between the two of you---love the Music Minister enough to literally DIE for the fellow---thats humility----you die for that fellow---you'll squash your pride at any "Professional" level!!! You won't be lowering yourself to the level of "whatever"---You'll gain in your knowledge of the humility of the Lord Jesus Christ!!!!

    Bro. David
     

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