Primitive Baptist?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Bible Believing Bill, Mar 30, 2002.

  1. Bible Believing Bill

    Bible Believing Bill
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    I have noticed that Bro. Glen and changed-like-saul identify themselves as Primitive Baptists. Could someone explain to me what a primitive baptist is?

    Is it like the Southern Baptists or General Baptists?

    Do primitive baptists hold some beliefs that are different than other baptists?

    Is there anything else that makes a primitive baptist different?

    Bill
     
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    NewBeliever, in the interest of time (I am leaving to attend a singing at Bethel Primitive Baptist Church in McMahan, TX), for now I am linking you to a topic on Primitive Baptists in our Reference Library. Perhaps other brethren will be able to answer you more specifically.
     
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Hey Brother Robert how about sending some links so we can hear some of that singing?... Brother Glen :D
     
  4. Clint Kritzer

    Clint Kritzer
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    I KNEW that thread would be useful in the library!!! :D
     
  5. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Bill Primitive Baptist are what the name implies Baptist of a Primitive belief and practice!

    We believe in all points of the TULIP Doctrine but don't believe that the preaching of the written Gospel is the means to carry it out! The Gospel is never used to make a sheep only to feed them! Gods in the sheep making business only and doesn't need any man other than his Son to save them!
    We use the KJV only as our Bible!
    Sunday schools are not taught in the New Testament Church, so we don't have them.
    Musical instruments were not used in the New Testament Church, so we sing with the mouth organ the one we were born with.
    We don't have a seminary trained clergy as all our preacher called elders are self taught of God an are called of him according to scripture. We have had some who were seminary trained and then became Primitive Baptist but seminary training didn't equip them for the difference in doctrinal teachings.
    Our preachers are not paid a salary like other Baptist Churches.
    We rebaptize those not of our belief even if they have already been baptized. I know thats hard to understand but thats our practice!
    In our communion service we use unleavened bread and wine according to scripture.
    We also have feetwashing but not all of our churches participate... You might of heard of us as feetwashing baptist.
    We also believe that grace is free and once you are saved you can never fall from that saved position. Grace is given to each one of Gods children freely as a gift and it is never an offer. The only offer we accept is the offering of Jesus Christ for our sins... That's Primitive Baptist in a nutshell... I've been one for 35 years!... Brother Glen :D

    [ March 31, 2002, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  6. Bible Believing Bill

    Bible Believing Bill
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    Thanks Brothers Robert and Glen.

    The link to the other topic is great. I have gotten about halfway through it and will hopefully have time to finish it today. It is full of ALOT of information.

    I also really liked your quick synopsis, Bro. Glen.

    Bill
     
  7. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Bill after you finish reading and you have any questions please feel free to send me a private message in my profile. Brother Clint and Robert already know of our belief and I feel better not rehashing everything on the board!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  8. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    Brother Glen, here is a link on which you can get a very small bit of the singing from 2000 - LoudHymns.com. There is a piece of "I'm Wandering To and Fro" (which is actually being led by yours truly, but the only part on the download is ladies singing a soprano & alto duet). The men come in on the chorus, but it's not on the piece that you download. Anyway, that link gives a place to buy a CD of the 100th annual Southwest Texas Sacred Harp Singing Convention, held at Bethel Primitive Baptist Church in McMahan, TX. This is a very professionally done recording - the sound is very good, though I can't recommend all the singers. ;)
     
  9. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Boy was that beautiful! Just when I started to join in... Man was that short!... btw... You sure have a high octave!... Brother Glen :D
     
  10. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    In another forum, in which we were discussing the Handbook of Denominations, Bro. Glen asked this question:
    I thought a more detailed discussion of that question might be appropriate, interesting, and informational here. Here is the way I classify Primitive Baptists (at least for now).

    BLACK PRIMITIVE BAPTISTS

    1. Progressive
    a. National Primitive Baptist Convention
    b. Independent progressive associations (so far I know of only one)

    2. Regular (these are roughly equivalent to the white Old Line or Regular Primitive Baptists, though there is evidently no division among them over regular or absolute predestination) - 32 local associations (and probably more than that)

    WHITE PRIMITIVE BAPTISTS

    1. Absolute Predestinarian - 57 local associations (though as many as 15 associations on my list may no longer exist) and at least 34 independent churches

    2. Progressive - 16 local associations; 14 which are connected by correspondence & the Birdwood/Thomas College, and 2 which correspond with no one (certainly there are some independent progressive churches, but I have yet to identify one)

    3. Regular Predestinarian - 141 local associations (of which two on my list may be extinct) and at least 594 independent churches

    4. Universalist - 6 local associations

    5. Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptist - 1 local association (with 2 churches) and 1 independent church (these churches do not use the name Primitive Baptist, but they are an early division of the Primitive Baptists)

    CREDITS
    In addition to spending hours pouring over minute books, I am deeply indebted to Robert Gardner of Mercer University (and Georgia Baptist Historical Society) for my knowledge of the black regular Primitive Baptist associations; to Albert Wardin, formerly of Belmont University, for my knowledge of black progressive Primitive Baptists, "Two-Seeders", and other Primitive associations; to Howard Dorgan (Appalachian State University) and Jeff Weaver (of the BAPTIST BOARD, Internet, World!) for my knowledge of the Universalists; to Elders Robert Webb (of the Primitive Baptist Library, Carthage, IL) and Jeff Weaver for looking over my lists. The number of 594 unaffiliated Regular Primitive Baptist churches is the total number of churches not claiming associational membership, listed in the Primitive Baptist Directory (2000). That directory is published by the Baptist Bible Hour and Elder Lassere Bradley.

    Finally, though I continue to recognize the Regular (or Old Line) Primitive Baptists as one group, there is definitely a growing division among them due to what some view as bringing in of progressive ideas on missions, bible studies, tithing, etc., etc. At the same time, the progressives among the Old Liners cannot be identified with the earlier progressive movement (which has embraced even musical instruments). Eventually, this division will probably produce yet another classification of white Primitive Baptists.
     
  11. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    What is the difference between the Regular and Absolute Predestinarian Primitive Baptist? I know I am of the Old Line Primitive Baptist but Absolute Predestinarian keeps coming to the surface. Brother Robert I want your opinion on this as one who is looking in not one who is already in. What are the differences as you see them?... Brother Glen :confused:
     
  12. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    Well, Glen, I can only speak to those with which I am familiar. They and the Old Line churches are not in fellowship. Some of the oldest Baptist churches in Texas are Absolute Predestinarian Primitive Baptist, and I have enjoyed visiting among them. They are not all in agreement, and there are about three chains of correspondence here in Texas (in other words that don't fellowship one another). What they would all agree on is the absolute predestination of all things, the evil as well as the good. One major issue they do not agree on is whether God is the author of sin, some holding this as a necessary part of absolute predestination and some arguing that God can absolutely predestinate all things and yet not be the author of sin. I personally can't fathom how God can predestinate sin and not be the author of it, but there are a lot of things I can't fathom. One of the best online sources concerning these Primitive Baptists is The Remnant newsletter by Elder C. C. Morris.
     
  13. pinoybaptist

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    hello, bible believing bill:
    Here's some info on PB's:
    1. On salvation:
    There are two kinds. One is eternal:
    grace thru faith alone, no action on the part of man, all actions on the part of God. God chose whom He will have mercy on based on His mercy alone, exercising His Sovereign Prerogative alone.
    Election done in eternity past, salvation sealed at the cross with the blood of the Lamb here in time, none of the elect will at any time.

    The other kind of salvation is Time Salvation or that experienced here in time such as salvation by the Lord from danger, illness, disease, and the like. This kind of salvation is often predicated on the obedience of the child of God to the precepts and principles of the Word of God.
    Eternal salvation is not pre-conditioned on anything on the part of man.

    2. The Gospel
    Does not regenerate, intended for the elect to bring life and immortality to light, must be preached because it is a command.

    3. The Ordinances

    Baptism (by immersion only, administered only to those who have given evidence of salvation apart from profession, by administrators authorized by the church ) and the Lord's Table using unleavened bread and real wine culminating in the washing of the saints' feet;

    4. Music

    The only instruments being the heart. Led by elders. Songbooks use mostly shape-notes.

    5. Sunday School

    None for most. Progressives, yes, and they also at times use recorded musical accompaniment.

    6. Missions

    Yes, to some, no to others. To those who say yes,
    the purpose is to preach the gospel not for the purpose of saving souls but to gather those whose ears God has opened into a local, militant, visible church where God is worshipped in spirit and in truth.

    7. Order of Worship

    Sing, pray, preach. No special numbers, no choirs, nothing that will focus praise or glory on the creature or the creature's talents.

    You could go to the following sites:
    1.primitive baptists

    2.
    pb history from apostolic times

    That's it for now. (I'm out of breath !).
     
  14. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    The only Primitive Baptist Church that cannot be considered in our ranks is The National Primitive Baptist Convention... They have things in their churches the true Primitive Baptist church would never have... Brother Glen :eek:
     
  15. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    Bro. Glen, I agree that the churches of the National Primitive Baptist Convention are not real Primitive Baptists in either doctrine or practice. But since they still use the name, they still get counted as Primitive Baptists. But it's good that you clarified it. Also the Progressives that I list under White Primitive Baptists (No. 2), though still fairly "Calvinistic" in doctrine, have left Primitive Baptist practice by adding Sunday Schools, church camps, musical instruments, Baptist Builders, etc..
     
  16. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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