Primitive baptist

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by the 'I AM' hath sent me, Aug 24, 2001.

  1. the 'I AM' hath sent me

    the 'I AM' hath sent me
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    What do they(primitive baptist)believe?
    Do they believe in eternal salvation?
    Do they believe all can be Saved? :confused:
     
  2. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    I've heard a little bit about primitive Baptists myself, I too am not all that sure. What I was told is that they abid by everything in the NT and their doctrine is like that of early Baptists- though I don't know how much truth there is to that. I'd be interested in hearing more though [​IMG]

    Until Next Post, Adam
     
  3. EPH 1:4

    EPH 1:4
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    I have been an IB for 11 years, I was born again Sept. 90. For several years I knew something was wrong with "soulwinning", so to make a long story short, about 2 years ago I started studying GRACE, and I found out that we "IB"s" have been misled. Grace is not God doing all he can do and the rest is up to you..no..GRACE is God saving LOST sinners, period! It's ALL God and NOT us cooperating with Him. www.pb.org :D
     
  4. EPH 1:4

    EPH 1:4
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    In my studying I saw in the scriptures that Christ did NOT die for all men..if he did ALL would be saved! There are so many scriptures taken out of context...please study the bible KJV..most Christians believe what they have been taught (right or wrong)..most preachers DON'T study..they preach what they have been taught..if a person is truly born-again, the Holy Ghost will guide in all truths. please study
     
  5. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn
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    Yes, Primitive Baptists believe in eternal salvation (eternal security; none God saves will fall or be eternally lost).

    No, Primitive Baptists do not believe that all can be saved. They are "Calvinistic" in their view of salvation, in that they believe that God has elected some to eternal salvation. Only the elect will be saved.

    Primitive Baptists differ from other Calvinists and Calvinistic Baptists in that they hold strictly to New Testament church order. Examples: since they don't find organized Sunday Schools in the New Testament, they do not have Sunday Schools; since they find no use of instrumental music in the New Testament, they do not use them. This would be true of almost all Primitive Baptists, although there are a few Progressive Primitive Baptists who have adopted such things as Sunday Schools and other church auxiliaries, as well as instrumental music.

    Here is a source on Primitive Baptists.
     
  6. the 'I AM' hath sent me

    the 'I AM' hath sent me
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EPH 1:4:
    In my studying I saw in the scriptures that Christ did NOT die for all men..if he did ALL would be saved! There are so many scriptures taken out of context...please study the bible KJV..most Christians believe what they have been taught (right or wrong)..most preachers DON'T study..they preach what they have been taught..if a person is truly born-again, the Holy Ghost will guide in all truths. please study<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    I don't really know what all you believe, and that website wasn't very clear. Do you believe that you must recieve a vision in order to go to Heaven? Also why did Jesus in Mark 16:15 command us to go into all the world and preach the gospel if only the elect could be saved. If we are already predestined, then why command us to spread the gospel. Who is susposed to be saved, since we are predestinated, will be saved. Right? :confused:
     
  7. adam1946

    adam1946
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    Instead of telling you what we believe here are our Articles Of Faith:

    We believe in only one true and living God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and these three in one.

    We believe that Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are Divine authority and the only rule of faith and practice.

    We believe in the total depravity of the human nature and that a recovery from that state is wholly of the free sovereign mercy and grace of God in Jesus Christ.

    We believe that God from eternity purposed to save a people from their sins for His own name's sake, and in His infinite wisdom, He devised the plan and appointed every means necessary to accomplish the great end of their redemption, which He effects in His own time by the operation of the Holy Spirit.

    We believe that God from eternity purposed in himself for His own glory to make a display of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and truth in the world of creation and revelation which He made in the disposition of His providence.

    We believe that sinners are justified before God by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ and such as are born of the Spirit of God are kept by the power of God through faith unto eternal salvation.

    We believe that good works are the effects of the faith of God's elect and follow being born of the Spirit of God and are evidence of a gracious state.

    We believe that Baptism, The Lord's Supper and washing of the saints' feet are ordinances of Jesus Christ and none but those who have professed in Christ according to His will are fit subjects for either.

    We believe that Baptism by the burial of the person in water is the gospel baptism of the penitent in Jesus Christ.

    We believe that no minister has any right to administer the ordinances of Baptism only such as have been regularly baptized and come under the imposition of the hands of the Presbytery by the authority of the Church of Christ.

    We believe in the resurrection of the dead and that their vile bodies will be raised and fashioned like unto the glorious body of Christ, when they will be fitted for eternal happiness and the bodies of the wicked will be raised unto everlasting contempt.

    I'm sure the other Primitive Baptist brethren on this site will agree that these are the Articles of Faith of all who claim the title of Old School, Old Line, Primitive Baptist which I've been a member of for 30 years... Brother Glen
     
  8. adam1946

    adam1946
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    I wanted to add one more thing for clarification, we use the KJV(1611) as the only Bible in our churches. I have never seen any other version in our pulpit and have never known any of our preachers to use anything but the King James Version when they preach the word of God... Brother Glen
     
  9. EPH 1:4

    EPH 1:4
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    I have heard a number of PB preachers this past year, and they preach and teach more bible than any other order that I know. These preachers "the ones I heard" really study and they don't take scripture out of context like most preachers. It is GOOD.www.pbsermons.org/elders.html
     
  10. the 'I AM' hath sent me

    the 'I AM' hath sent me
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EPH 1:4:
    I have heard a number of PB preachers this past year, and they preach and teach more bible than any other order that I know. These preachers "the ones I heard" really study and they don't take scripture out of context like most preachers. It is GOOD.www.pbsermons.org/elders.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Well, do Primitive Baptists believe that you must recieve a vision to be saved? Also, why do Primitive Baptists only attend service once a month?

    Kenneth
     
  11. EPH 1:4

    EPH 1:4
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    Vision?...no..never heard that one...the PB's that I know attend every Sunday, some don't have services on Sunday nights. There's a LOT of good info on www.pb.org. This site has everything they believe.
     
  12. the 'I AM' hath sent me

    the 'I AM' hath sent me
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EPH 1:4:
    Vision?...no..never heard that one...the PB's that I know attend every Sunday, some don't have services on Sunday nights. There's a LOT of good info on www.pb.org. This site has everything they believe.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    I am finding out that what I've been told isn't necessarily true. I was told, PB had to recieve a vision in order to recieve Salvation. As for the Sunday services, it must be a local thing. All of the PB Churches around here only have service once a month, usually the last Sunday and Saturday.

    Thanks for your replys, Kenneth
     
  13. Harald

    Harald
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    Hello. It is an interesting topic being discussed. I had heard but little about the Primitive Baptists and what I heard was but negative, they were called anti-evangelistic, fatalists, hardshells etc. I was told they were to be avoided. Ignorant as I was I took it for the truth. But I believe the Lord God has led me to see the truth about Primitive Baptists, in general. Today I can say those men mislead me, deliberately or not I cannot say. In my country there are no Primitive Baptists to my knowledge. Myself would probably come quite close, although I am not a Baptist in the proper sense of the word. I have been immersed twice, and both instances by synagogues of the adversary and ministers of the same. I learned about the Primitive Baptists via the internet and was glad that they are the Lord's people, in general. I say "in general" because I know there are also tares among the wheat in His true assemblies, and some may even be Satan's synagogues. Having had the advantage of investigating the branches of Christianity as an objective investigator I draw the following conclusions. The Primitive Baptists, or, Old School Baptists, are among the soundest groups of Baptist on earth today. This may be verified when comparing their doctrines to the whole counsel of God's Word. I know of but a few branches of Baptists whose ministers have blessed my soul in a spiritual way. 1. The Particular Baptists of England, of which I will mention the following men; Samuel Richardson, John Brine, John Gill, John Forman. 2. The Gospel Standard Baptists of England, which arose in the early 1800's if I am not greatly mistaken, of whom I will mention the following whose writings have blessed me; William Gadsby, J C Philpot, John Kershaw, Frank L Gosden, Henry Sant, C Parsons, A G Randalls, J H Gosden. 3. The Primitive Baptists of USA, of whom the following have especially blessed me by their writings; Thomas P Dudley, Wilson Thompson, Gilbert Beebe, Silas Durand, Samuel Trott, C C Morris. These 3 branches and the above mentioned men especially have one thing in common, they all preached/preach THE Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Some may ask, what about Sovereign Grace Landmark Baptists, Reformed Baptists, Sovereign Grace Baptists? Are not they also Calvinistic? Yes, they are. But although these 3 latter branches have many good things and are quite sound they have one common thing, in my opinion; their ministers have not blessed my soul in a spiritual way as the ministers of the 3 first branches of Baptists have. Why? Because they do not, in general, preach THE Gospel of free grace as it was set forth by Paul and the other apostles of Christ. The 3 latter branches generally hold to the false gospel, they are of one mind with Luther and Spurgeon etc. on the crucial doctrine of justification. These two men taught and believed contrary to what the Word of God teaches regarding justification. But the Particular Baptists, the Gospel Standard Baptists and the Primitive Baptists are in the main wholly sound on the crucial doctrine of justification. Many of the Reformed, Sovereign Grace and the Sov.Grace Landmark Baptists are Fullerites, and Fuller was evidently shown to be a wolf in sheep's clothing. Today I would say the Gospel Standard Baptists in Great Britain and the Primitive Baptists in North America are the only two branches of Baptists who persistently stick to the Biblical Gospel and the apostolical faith as set forth in the NT. All other Calvinist Baptist branches are more or less apostate. At least this is the conclusion I draw from what I have seen lately on the internet. If any be interested in checking out these two Baptist groups or writings from their ministers I shall name a few websites. First Gospel Standard Baptists; The Parsons Pages, The Faith of God's Elect, Strict Baptist Historical Society. Primitive Baptists; Pristine Grace, Mount Zion Primitive Baptist Church, Primitive Baptist Web Station (already mentioned), Remnant Publications, Old Design. Plus one Particular Baptist of old whose writings are available online, The John Gill Archive,and, John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible. May the Lord bless His hungry sheep with pleasant moments reading the writings found within those sites mentioned, if He so sees fit. I would any of the Lord's elect who may read this pray for me since I am very lonesome over where I live, without true Gospel fellowship and much downcast most the time. Peace be unto those that be of Israel.

    Harald
     
  14. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    Brother Harald if you will email me I will talk about the Primitive Baptist that you love so dearly. My email is in my profile. Looking forward to hearing from you... Brother Glen

    [ September 28, 2001: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  15. Charlie the Chosen

    Charlie the Chosen
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    There are alot of primitive baptist here in the south and the only thing that I'm aware of where they differ from soutern baptist is there practice of foot washing. That is a subject that I need to study before making a comment about. But there is one question I hope someone can answer. Do primitive baptist believe that someone can be baptized for the dead?
     
  16. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Charlie,

    I'm not aware of it, if there is such a belief; although I have studied the Primitive Baptists, I'm not one.

    The Primitives differ from the SBC in a number of ways: they're much more Calvinistic; they don't believe in missionary societies--"moneyed societies", they call them; they don't have Sunday Schools; they don't have musical instruments in worship; they don't believe in paid pastors.

    Which brings up this question: Why don't Primitive Baptists use musical instruments? Is it for the same reason that Churches of Christ don't--that such instruments are not mentioned in the New Testament?
     
  17. John Wells

    John Wells
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    Kenneth,

    Regarding your question: "why did Jesus in Mark 16:15 command us to go into all the world and preach the gospel if only the elect could be saved. If we are already predestined, then why command us to spread the gospel. Who is susposed to be saved, since we are predestinated, will be saved."

    Witnessing to "all the world" has a twofold purpose. When the gospel is heard by the non-elect, their rejection condemns them. Even the elect must be drawn to Christ, so witnesses are part of the election process. When I first grasped and delt with the election concept, it was difficult. Here is a substantial case for election:

    Romans 8:28-30 (ESV)
    And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

    2 Peter 1:10 (ESV)
    Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

    1 Peter 1:2 (ESV)
    according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

    2 Timothy 1:9 (ESV)
    who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 (ESV)
    But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

    1 Thessalonians 2:12 (ESV)
    we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.

    1 Thessalonians 1:4 (ESV)
    For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you,

    Colossians 3:12 (ESV)
    Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,

    Ephesians 2:10 (ESV)
    For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

    Ephesians 1:4-5 (ESV)
    even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

    Ephesians 1:9-11 (ESV)
    making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

    Galatians 1:15 (ESV)
    But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace,

    1 Corinthians 1:26-29 (ESV)
    For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

    Romans 9:23-24 (ESV)
    in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

    Romans 8:33 (ESV)
    Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

    John 6:37-39 (ESV)
    All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

    John 6:44-45 (ESV)
    No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—

    John 15:16 (ESV)
    You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

    John 15:19 (ESV)
    If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

    John 17:2 (ESV)
    since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.


    Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the ELECT'S sake those days shall be shortened."

    Matthew 24:24 ". . . insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very ELECT."

    Matthew 24:31 ". . . and they shall gather together HIS ELECT from the four winds . . . "

    Romans 9:11 "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to ELECTION might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. "

    Romans 11:5, 7 "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according TO THE ELECTION OF GRACE. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but THE ELECTION hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. "

    Romans 11:28 ". . . but as touching the ELECTION, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. "

    2 Tim. 2:10 "Therefore I endure all things for the ELECT'S SAKES, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

    Titus 1 ". . . according to the faith of God's ELECT. . . "
     
  18. Joey M

    Joey M
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Witnessing to "all the world" has a twofold purpose. When the gospel is heard by the non-elect, their rejection condemns them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    John 3:18 "...but he that believeth not is condemned already..."

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1 Peter 1:2 (ESV)
    according to the foreknowledge of God the Father <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    This verse you quoted says it all. It was the foreknowledge of God that I would come to Him that He predistend me before the foundation of the world. Not that He said "Well, I'll make Joey here and bound him for heaven, and then I'll make John here and bound him for hell."
    Come on, this is the lamest thing I have ever heard a christian say.

    1 John 2:2 "And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

    Luke 22:34 "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."
    Yea that really sounds like to me that He predistined them for hell, huh???
     
  19. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    Joey:

    Like most non-reformed, you selectively deal with some passaged which appear to support free will. What of all the other passages John Wells cited? Forknowledge does not mean what God knew would happen; it deals with knowing intimately beforehand as a husband knows and loves a wife. If God chooses those who choose him, he is a powerless god and Man is sovereign. As the London Baptist Confession of faith states in chapter III:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I. God hath decreed in Himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever come to pass;[1] yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;[3] in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.[4]

    1. Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15, 18
    2. James 1:13; I John 1:5
    3. Acts 4:27-28; John 19:11
    4. Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3-5

    II. Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions,[5] yet hath He not decreed anything, because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.[6]

    5. Acts 15:18
    6. Rom. 9:11, 13, 16, 18

    III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestined, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,[7] to the praise of His glorious grace;[8] others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.[9]

    7. I Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
    8. Eph. 1:5-6
    9. Rom. 9:22-23; Jude 1:4

    IV. These angels and men thus predestined and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[10]

    10. II Tim. 2:19; John 13:18

    V. Those of mankind that are predestined to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of His mere free grace and love,[11]without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving Him thereunto.[12]

    11. Eph. 1:4, 9, 11; Rom. 8:30; II Tim. 1:9; I Thess. 5:9
    12. Rom. 9:13, 16; Eph. 2:5, 12 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Salvation is all of God and none of man.

    1 Peter 2:4-10 (ESV)
    As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, [5] you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. [6] For it stands in Scripture:
    "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
    a cornerstone chosen and precious,
    and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."
    [7] So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,
    "The stone that the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone,"

    [8] and
    "A stone of stumbling,
    and a rock of offense."

    They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. [9] But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. [10] Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
     
  20. Joey M

    Joey M
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    God offers salvation to all.
    2 peter 3:9 "9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

    Matt. 23:37,38 "
    O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

    Salvation is of the Lord, I agree. And so is healing, it is God's doing, yet Jesus said to many that He healed, "Thy faith hath healed thee," or"Thy faith hath sved thee."
    Here are some of those passages.
    Matthew 9:22,Matthew 15:28,Mark 5:34,Mark 10:52,Luke 7:49,Luke 8:48,Luke 17:19,Luke 18:42
    Though it was God that done the healing or saving without thier faith it never would have happened.
    Man can not come to God except he be drawn by the Spirit. I agree But God also said "For God so loved the world, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life."
    Am I to believe we are puppets in a game of life? God singling some out for damnation and singling some out for salvation.
    That calvanistic view is, as they say in the south, "Hog-wash".
     

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