Problems at Bellevue Baptist Church

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Martin, Nov 17, 2006.

  1. Martin

    Martin
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    What is the problem at Bellevue Baptist Church (Adrian Rodgers old church). I keep hearing rumors of problems but I have not read/heard exactly what is going on. Anyone here know?
     
  2. Joshua Rhodes

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    Don't know but this almost borders on gossip, doesn't it? Don't worry... I'm not planning to descend into a discussion on the evils of gossip. Just thought I'd point out that it sounds a little like that. Peace.
     
  3. Martin

    Martin
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    ==No, I am just trying to find out what the problem is. I believe there was a article on BaptistPress about it some time back but it could have been a different Baptist newspaper.
     
  4. Tom Butler

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    Actually there's quite a lot of turmoil there, and unfortunately it's gone public, via websites set up by both opponents of Dr. Gaines and supporters.

    The antis:
    http://savingbellevue.com/

    The supporters:
    http://newbbcopenforum.blogspot.com/

    It seems that one of Pastor Gaines' biggest problems is that he's not Adrian Rogers.
     
  5. blackbird

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    I've examined the saving belvue site

    blog reaks of gossip and bitterness --- sounds like the dude's "man" didn't get the pastorate --- or someone was on staff that got "terminated" --- all in all it sounds like the dude needs to repent and reconcile with Dr. Gaines

    Blogger is typical Baptist --- get mad at the preacher --- quit going to church --- then says after a few months of absence --- nobody there cares for me --- they won't come visit me --- and he won't halfway even try to reconcile with Dr. Gaines more in likely --- and blame it all on the preacher --- "I've got somethin' against him and he needs to come get things right with me!" ---- when it needs to be the other way around --- dude's got somethin' against the preacher --- don't blog about it --- go see the guy face to face!!!

    but he probably won't!!
     
  6. Martin

    Martin
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    ==In general I agree but I do see "some" problems. Either way I was just interested in what the issue was. Now that I know, well thats pretty much that. Thanks.
     
  7. Joshua Rhodes

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    Martin, there was no offense intended. My apologies if I did offend.
     
  8. Pipedude

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    I'm in email contact with a member there.

    Suffice it to say, there are genuine problems and it isn't merely the grumbling of malcontents. Some good folks are concerned about new directions and wish that those in charge listened more.

    Hopefully it will work out.
     
  9. Martin

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    ==None taken. Actually I was already concerned about the very point you raised. I had even thought about asking the mod to delete/lock the post as soon as I got the answer. However it does not seem to be creating a firestorm so I have not done that.

    Thanks for the apology, but none needed! :thumbs:
     
  10. Rufus_1611

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    Bellevue Baptist fires minister after investigation of sex abuse

    CORDOVA, Tenn. (ABP) -- In the latest development in a scandal at one of the Southern Baptist Convention’s largest churches, Bellevue Baptist Church fired Paul Williams Jan. 22. He had served as the minister of prayer and special projects at the 25,000-member church for 34 years.

    Williams came under fire last December after Pastor Steve Gaines announced Williams had gone on paid leave pending a church investigation regarding a "moral failure." Gaines told the church Williams had confessed misconduct to him six months earlier.

    Specific details of the case, allegedly involving sodomy with a minor 17 years ago, have not been released to the public, but several web sites supporting Bellevue claim the abuse involved a family member. ​
    ...
     
  11. rbell

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    Just to clarify Rufus' post...

    That scandal is not the whole controversy...the fur was flying before the staff member issue. But this has ramped it up to a new level.

    Boy, I hate this...a church this large, and a mess this big really has a trickle-down effect to hurt a lot of witness opportunities.

    I hope this finds a biblical resolution
     
  12. gb93433

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    Out of all the malcontents how many are leaders in their jobs?

    The majority of people in churches do not have a clue how to lead anyone. They have not even started at the very basic level of discipling anyone.
     
  13. ituttut

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    What is the problem at Bellevue Baptist Church (Adrian Rodgers old church)? It lives up to its name. It is a Baptist church, and any Baptist church worth its salt will do what it does best. I'm right and you're wrong.

    "Does Baptism save?"
    "No, but…."
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    "I kind of like our new Pastor".

    "Well I don't. There will never be another man of God like ____". What will become of us?"
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++

    We are not of those that protested.

    "Yes we are."

    "No we are not".

    "Well both of you are wrong for we did protest, but we did it long before the other's Protested, so there."

    "Does not the lake of fire await all of you because you don't believe WE ARE THE TRUE and first CHURCH, because we go back to John the Baptist. Don't any of you understand that is where we got our name?"
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    "We must be Calvinist's as that is what Calvin believed."

    "Don't you know that Arminius came along afterwards and corrected error in Calvinistic theology? "

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++

    "Have you heard?"

    "About the Pastor's wife?"

    "Oh, that's not true. "This is even more serious". "Sister Bitzy said the Pastor was all alone with Widow Flowinghair at her house for over an Hour."

    "Do you think Sister Bitzy can be trusted?"

    "Of course. "Sister Bitzy is the one that told me that rumor about the Pastor's wife was not true." "After Sister Bitzy got her new glasses, she did not hesitate to tell everybody that may not have been the Pastor's wife she saw going into the movie theater."

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++

    That's us without question. We work out our own salvation. We seem more to do things in our minds, than in our bodies.
     
  14. DQuixote

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    Leave it alone. They don't need us to sort it out.
     
  15. Pipedude

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    Don't allow yourself to think that the opposition is just "malcontents." I know some of them and, yes, they are leaders in their jobs, active in personal evangelism and "off-campus" ministries, have kids all grown and serving the Lord, etc.

    This is not your standard "I am of Paul" carnality. The problems are real and a lot of damage is occurring. Since I'm not there, I do not presume to know the facts and the answers; but I do know some of the people on both sides of the matter.

    For those who don't have enough in their own church to worry about, the Saving Bellevue website has some important data on it, as well as some molehill-mountain data. Sift for yourself and pray for Bellevue, Mid-America seminary, and Memphis in general.
     
  16. ituttut

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    Yes. We agree it best to do as we are told and work it out.
     
  17. Mike McK

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    There are some good people posting in this thread. Some people who's posts have been very much edifying to me over the years and who, I'm sure have been a blessing to others.

    I wonder if they realize how the nature of this thread may affect weaker brothers and sisters. There are a lot of folks out there who struggle with gossip and I worry that this may be throwing fuel on the fire.

    What makes gossip so dangerous is that you can get caught up in it and never even see it coming. I fear that's what's happening or about to happen here.

    If you're not a member of Bellvue Baptist Church, then it's really none of your concern, except to say, "Oh, that's terrible. Let's be sure to remember them in prayer."

    If you are a member of that church, then this is an internal family situation and you really shouldn't be sharing it here.

    May I humbly suggest that we all stop discussing what may or may not be happening, especially when so much of what's being passed around here is based on, "I heard..." or "I know this guy who..." and simply agree to pray for them?
     
  18. Rufus_1611

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    While I respect the spirit of what you are trying to say, I don't really understand it. Most of the posts in this thread haven't been about Bellevue but been about gossip and not doing it, so why yet another post admonishing against gossip?

    I have no idea what went on at Bellevue save for the public article from a Baptist source that I posted which, according to rbell, isn't even the primary problem. However, I'm starting to wonder if this story is worth spending time on considering there are seemingly so many that don't want anyone to understand it or talk about it.

    If one calls oneself a Baptist and a church using that name is in the spotlight, then it is of your concern. I was witnessing one Friday night and had a gentleman ask if I was with that Phelps guy in Kansas. I have nothing to do with that guy and am adamantly opposed to many of his doctrines however, what he was doing as a Baptist in Kansas is impacting Baptists in Texas via the public scrutiny.

    We need not be ignorant of the devil's devices as he is destroying our local assemblies. We should be looking for patterns and asking questions. If we're under attack and we are ignorant of the attack, how do we mount an effective defense? I'm not advocating for gossip but I'm not sure that understanding the information that has been made public and/or information that has been confirmed to be a bad thing. If it is, we'll need to discontinue discussion on Warren, Hovind, Gray, Phelps, Schaap, Haggard and any number of folks that we've had discussions about on this board.
     
  19. Mike McK

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    Nobody is under attack. There is an internal squabble in a church we're not members of.

    The best "defense" is to stop spreading rumors and pray for them.

    There's a big difference between discussing what we know to be factual and what we've heard second-hand.

    So much of what's going on in this thread is based on heresay and speculation.
     
  20. Rufus_1611

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    One of the lord's assemblies is suffering a satanic attack as a result of one or more persons sin. If they weren't under attack, they wouldn't be a topic.

    Perhaps you could specifically cite what you are referring to?

    Here's my scorecard...

    Post Topics
    1. General Question
    2. Against Gossip
    3. General Question
    4. General Statement w/ Sources
    5. Against Gossip
    6. General Statement
    7. Apology
    8. General Statement
    9. Response to Apology
    10. Public Article
    11. Article Clarification
    12. General Statement
    13. Against Gossip
    14. Against Gossip
    15. General Statement
    16. Against Gossip
    17. Against Gossip
    18. Where's the Gossip?
    19. Against Gossip

    Having read this thread I do not know what the primary allegations are but 36% of the posts have preached against gossip, and 0% contain actual gossip. Not really a big deal, just an observation and a point of confusion from my perspective.
     

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