Problems Inherent in God’s “Love” For All

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Protestant, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. Protestant

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    Not surprisingly there are several members on the Board who hold to the doctrine of God’s universal love for every single human ever born. I even read a thread where a Baptist pastor declared God’s love for Judas Iscariot.

    I can be silent no longer.

    Therefore, I ask all such adherents to not throw common sense away when interpreting Scripture and forming doctrines.

    If you, the parent of a child whom you love, could save that child from certain death and misery, would you not do so? Granted, you are only human and could only do so much. You may lack the necessary power and means to achieve your heart’s desire. But consider the Lord God who is infinite in His power and wisdom.

    For what is impossible with man is possible with God.

    It is impossible for God to fail to actually save those whom He has purposed to save. Whom He has purposed to love.

    Failure is sin. All humans have failed and come short of the glory of God, but not Jesus. Christ’s mission was to actually save His people from their sins. (Matt.1:21) His mission was not to attempt to save nor try His best to save His people. Nor was it His mission to fail to save any of His people. In fact, He declares both He and the Father have not and will not lose one. (John 17:12; 10:28-29)

    To believe and teach that the infinitely wise, holy, omnipotent God failed to save one person He loved, whom He purposed to save, is to believe and teach a false god.

    Such a belief would be problematic for a professing Christian on Judgment Day.

    Furthermore, God’s love cannot fail.

    Please review Romans 8:35ff. Separation from God’s love is impossible for those whom He loves. Hell is separation from God. Those who adhere to God’s universal love must declare God loves those whom He torments in eternal hellfire.

    This may come as a shock to some of the Board members, but it is God’s love which actually saves sinners from the just punishment they deserve:
    ”But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)” (Ephesians 2:4-5)

    To demonstrate the reception God’s love receives by unregenerate sinners, please review the ministry and crucifixion of Christ, His Apostles and martyrs throughout Church history.

    It is no different today. Unbelief and hatred abounds.

    However, instead of murdering innocents who preach in the name of Christ, Satan has taken a different tact.

    Satan’s tares preach another Gospel and another Christ. One which gives sinners false hope without regeneration. Morality without holiness. One which has a Savior who loves you unconditionally yet who can do nothing but hope and wait for your sincere invitation that He enter into your sinful heart…..via the unbiblical “Sinner’s Prayer.”

    He is a Savior who, sadly, loses more to Hell than gains to Heaven.

    The biblical truth that all are children of wrath, natural born enemies of God, is viewed as too harsh a message by which to gain converts.

    So instead God’s “love” for all is preached. How much more pleasant this sounds to the ears of the hell-bound sinner. How quickly this escalates into the man-pleasing doctrines which declare God’s blessings of manifold financial riches, the possibility of being highly favored in the world, of being cured of all sicknesses and diseases, as well as having the extraordinary power to bind every spiritual ruler of darkness in high places.

    To reiterate, God saves all He loves.

    Those who have ears, may God let him hear.
     
  2. Jerome

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    :confused:
    Why are you posting this in the Baptist section?
     
  3. Iconoclast

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    Why not ,Jerome?
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I am on the same page you are brother....but a word of caution Gird your Loins! :tonofbricks:
     
  5. webdog

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    More emotionalism. Lets add justice to the equation, shall we? Would a judge be able to overrule his love and the law if his son stood before him in court accused of murder?

    This is real simple. Who are we allowed to withold love from? We are commanded to love even our enemies, and if we hate another human we are charged with murder. Since we are IN Christ, explain how we are eternally united except for it coming down to witholding love. I look forward to the semantical, logical and theological gymnastics to follow...
     
  6. Iconoclast

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    non sequitur ,red herring:laugh::laugh:
     
  7. webdog

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    Considering we are talking about love, you might want to look those phrases up. :thumbs:

    I missed the asterisk next to the verse saying we have the mind of Christ, btw.
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    Before I posted I had a thought...what would webdog do? wwwd...:wavey::thumbs: just having some fun...lol
     
  9. Benjamin

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    Psa 34:13 Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile.


    To believe and teach that the Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnibenevolent God failed to create His create His creatures with the human freedoms in Love by which He judges them in Truth and that He is not powerful enough to maintain these truths of His Nature and all His Just Ways is to teach a false god.

    Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

    Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    Mat 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? (17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. (18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    1Jn 1:5-6 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. (6) If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

    Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.



    2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

    1Jn 2:22-26 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. (24) Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (25) And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. (26) These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
     
    #9 Benjamin, Jul 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2013
  10. Iconoclast

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    Benjamin





    :confused::confused::confused:
    Not so clear. This muddled thinking happens when someone tries hard to oppose scripture

    In turning from the biblical teaching...you are speaking of a false God.The language you employ demonstrates it....He is not powerful enough to maintain????
    As if you can dictate to God how He should act based on your carnal philosophy that you import into Deut 32:4 which you want to stretch into whatever subjective idea you want to ascribe to it,and at the same time neglecting the full revelation of scripture concerning the Fall of man.
     
  11. Protestant

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    Why is a Lion Monkey your avatar?
    Are you pushing an evolutionary hidden agenda?
     
  12. Protestant

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    Consider the full armor of God worn at all times!:)
     
  13. Dr. Bob

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    will move this to a section where all Christians may post, rather than violate the rules and have a non-Baptist post in restricted airspace.
     
  14. Protestant

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    Thank you for opening the door to the Gospel. I pray all your similar thinking friends view this response. Here is the Good News The sovereign Judge has already judged sinners, His only begotten beloved Son having taken their due punishment. Christ propitiated (completely satisfied) divine justice perfectly by His atonement made upon the cross. In John 17 and John 10 Jesus explains that His sheep are those who were given Him by the Father. He loses none. Translation: His substitutionary sacrifice on their behalf was accepted by the Father, therefore there is no condemnation for those for whom Christ died.

    The Lord God withheld saving love from most of planet Earth until recently when the Gospel was finally sent worldwide. Prior to that, for innumerable centuries the heathen all died in their sins without a stich of hope.

    Ultimately, we are to be led by the Spirit. Even Jesus kept silent when asked "What is truth?" In your mind, Jesus was in error for not proclaiming the Gospel to Pilate when the opportunity presented itself.

    Exactly. The Christians on this board who defend the doctrines of grace are showing their love to you and your theological friends by patiently explaining to you the errors of your ways through classic scriptural exegesis.

    If you love Jesus as you claim, why then do you not believe His sayings?


    You are not hated. If we were silent, then we could be accused of hatred.
     
  15. webdog

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    So instead of actually adressing anything, you just chalk me up as lost and move on (against board rules, I might add). Its clear you are merely a hyper calvitroll not interested in any actual discussion or debate, just spreading your manmade false doctrine and fruit inspecting. Its a warm evening, take a nice long stroll off a short pier.
     
    #15 webdog, Jul 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2013
  16. Protestant

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  17. BobRyan

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    The Arminian believes "God so Loved the WORLD -- yes REALLY"

    The Calvinist "God so loved the World?? -- I don't think so!"

    Take your pick.

    "He came to HIS OWN - and HIS OWN received him NOT" - John 1

    "O Jerusalem Jerusalem ...how I WANTED to save our children... but YOU would not" Matt 23.

    At almost every turn - the Bible debunks Calvinism.

    "He is able to graft them in AGAIN IF they do not continue in unbelief" Romans 11.

    Matt 18 - "Forgiveness revoked".

    Gal 5:4 "you have been SEVERED from Christ... you have FALLEN from Grace".

    1 John 2:2 God sent His Son to be the "atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

    At every point - Calvinism fails the test of scripture.

    How then is anyone fooled into believing in Calvinism - once they have had a chance to spend a few minutes with their Bible?

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #17 BobRyan, Jul 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2013
  18. webdog

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    And in true fashion, a post calling someone unsaved is reported and nothing done about it. On my last leg with this board, its as bad as its been since I've been here.
     
  19. convicted1

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  20. Gup20

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    This is a fantastic leap in logic. You have assumed that God saves out of love and condemns out of hate. God doesn't hate people, He hates sin. You have also assumed that the choice of whom to save or not save is a choice God reserves for Himself.

    Deu 30:19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
    20 by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”​

    This is a choice God has given to man. Most things we do not have the choice, but this is something we are commanded to choose. What we can take from this is that those whom God does not make righteous are those who do not love God, and have not chosen God.

    Moreover, God loved us even BEFORE we loved Him:

    Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.​



    This is the crux of your entire theological position. However, you have built that house on sinking sand:

    Rom 8:33 Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies;​

    Within context, we see that Paul is talking about Christians. He is saying nothing can separate Christians (God's elect) from His love. The implication here is that God's justice has already separated the rest of humanity from Himself. But because His Love is so great, he provided a way where some may escape death.

    Mar 10:21 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
    22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.
    23 And Jesus, looking around, said to His disciples, “How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!”​

    Here is an example of a person Jesus loved who did not enter the kingdom of heaven. Salvation is by grace through faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. By God's love this was made available to ALL mankind. But we must choose this life. If we reject it, God allows our choice.

    By your way of thinking, SIN would be God's fault. He would be the author of sin. But since God has given man the choice of life and death, we can see that sin, death, suffering, disease - all indicators of separation from God - is the result of man's choice.

    Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

    1Cr 15:21 For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.​

    Why do bad things happen in the world? Why doesn't God choose to save all? Why do bad things happen to good people? Because all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. Because we chose to sin. By a man came death - God gave us a choice.

    It is also the biblical truth that God loved us while we were yet in our sin.
     

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