Profess Jesus yet follow Moses

RE: Profess Jesus yet follow Moses - Part 4


B.) As a Christian, I am not "under" the precepts of the Mosaic Law. There are multiple Scriptures to this effect, and multiple reasons for this, as well. But try and not get ahead of me, here, folks, and read into this something I am not saying. Follow me, please. Some of the posted Scriptures above testify to this not being "under the law", among them Gal. 3:25; 4:21; 5:18. Others are Rom. 6:14, 15.
(1.) The first and foremost reason I am not "under the law" is the expressed statements of Scripture mentioned above.
(2.) Another reason I am not "under the law" is that the law (or any other law, for that matter) refers, among other things, to it's citizens, and/or someone 'abiding' there, here Israel. Can't happen to me. I never was a citizen of Israel (Eph. 2:12, HCJB) , and I'm not one now. "For our citizenship is in heaven" (Phil'p. 3:20), not in this earthly realm. Here, I'm an ambassador for Christ (II Cor. 5:20; Eph. 6:20) and by faith, a stranger and pilgrim passing through (Heb. 11:13, I Pet. 2:11). In political speak, I have 'diplomatic immunity'. I'll use another example, as well. I am a citizen of the Commonwealth of KY and the USA. As long as I'm here in KY, and never in the state of, say, Iowa, and do not buy or sell with anyone in Iowa, I am not in any way subject to it's laws, for any reason. How could I be? I've never once set foot in Iowa, so chose that state. Likewise, I have never set foot in or dealt with Brazil. Same deal! No matter how good or bad any of their laws may be, they do not concern me, in any fashion. It is impossible for me to "break" one of them, for they simply do not apply.
(3.) There is also another way they don't concern me. Bro. Bob correctly pointed out that the law is for the unrighteous, and not for the righteous. Once again, it doesn't apply. For I claim to be righteous - 100% righteous. (Please attempt to hold the snorts and howls down to a rumble, here!) Why?? I have the righteousness of Christ imputed to me personally, imputed to my account, and am in Christ, and therefore am clothed in and covered by His righteousness - all by faith. (Rom. 3:22; Rom.4; Phl'p. 3:9)
(4.) We might consider what IS our relationship to 'the law', scripturally, as well as the law's relationship to me/us.

 

RE: Profess Jesus yet follow Moses - Part 5

Here are six things about our relationship to the law.
(a.) We are not under it, as stated above.
(b.) We are dead to the law. (Rom.7:4; Gal. 2:19) My mother, father, and brother are all dead and are now with the Lord, in all three cases. Guess what? Not one law of KY applies any more to any of the three. The state can pass any and all additional laws it pleases that apply to me. It cannot pass a single one that applies to any of them, for they are "dead to the law." That is exactly what the two passages are saying, here.
(c.) We are dead through the law. (Gal.2:19) An illustration might suffice, here. A criminal is sentenced to death, and executed. 'He' is pronounced dead, by the authorities, as 'he' is not breathing, 'he' has no heartbeat and no brain activity. He's dead. His body is embalmed, and he is buried. All the above are attested to and witnessed by a number of individuals. Later one, supposedly he, is seen walking the streets, again. Someone approaches a judge to execute this individual. The judge calls for the record, and observes the above. All this has been done. He tells the objector that the sentence was fully fulfilled. The objector says, "But he is walking around now, again. He must have risen from the grave. The judge would say, "That's not my worry. Mine is to see that the law is carried out. It has been. Every penalty was met and dealt. It's over and done. The law has no further claim on him, for he is dead through the law. There is nothing further I can do to a dead man." BTW, this happens to be what happened to the Lord Jesus Christ, as to Roman Law. The Lord died through the Roman law, meeting every penalty it could impose. And when He arose from the grave, there was not one more thing that Roman Law could do - not one. And the Lord was dead, regrardless of what modernists claim. His proclamation is "I am He that lives, and was dead, and Behold! I am alive forevermore." I submit that that is "Shoutin' Ground!", to use an old Baptist phrase.
(d.) We are "loosed from the law", as the picture of a widow is in Romans 7:2.
(e.) We are set "free from the law". (Rom. 8:2) The picture here is that of a slave, whose price has been paid, and the owner now "sets him free." No longer is he or she the slave of another, like Onesimus, who was the slave of Philemon. (BTW, Paul would seem to be subtly urging Philemon to now free Onesimus in exactly this manner, if I read the Epistle of Philemon correctly.)
(f.) We are redeemed from the law. (And that by the precious blood of Christ. Gal. 3:13: I Pet. 1:18-19) A great picture of this is the 'goel' - the near kinsman redeemer spoken of by Job, and personified in Boaz. He paid the price that Ruth could not pay. That legal debt was satisfied. She and all that was hers was free. No more claim was or could be held against that debt. Likewise us and the law.

 

RE: Profess Jesus yet follow Moses - Part 6

5. We can then rightly ask the question, are you saying that the law was done away with? No, I'm not saying that at all, depending on what you mean. Well then what am I saying? What happens or happened to the law?
(a.) Was it destroyed? No! absolutely not! At least not when Jesus was alive on this earth. Jesus said I am come not to destroy the law, but to fulfill. He further said that not even the smallest mark or letter would pass away till all be fulfilled. (Matt. 5:17-18) Jesus kept the law; Jesus met each and every demand of the law. i.e., He did fulfill it. Totally and completely! (Lk. 16:17; 24:44) [He wasn't concerned with (and even in some instances, rejected) the traditions added to the law, but that's not for this response.]
(b.) Once He had fulfilled the demands of the Law, what happened? The Lord did make the Mosaic Law of no further effect, and in fact "changed" it, without destroying one letter. The law was now "done away" (Eph. 2;15, YLT, HCSB rendering) i.e. "superceeded" so to speak, as:
"13 but now in Christ Jesus *ye* who once were afar off are become nigh by the blood of the Christ.
14For *he* is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of enclosure,
15 having annulled the enmity in his flesh, the law of commandments in ordinances, that he might form the two in himself into one new man, making peace;
16 and might reconcile both in one body to God by the cross, having by it slain the enmity; (Eph. 2:12-16 - Darby) "
This 'annulment' was accomplished by Jesus, himself, nailing the law to the cross:
" 13 And you, being dead in offences and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, he has quickened together with him, having forgiven us all the offences;
14 having effaced the handwriting in ordinances which [stood out] against us, which was contrary to us, he has taken it also out of the way, having nailed it to the cross;
15 having spoiled principalities and authorities, he made a show of them publicly, leading them in triumph by it. (Col 2:13-15 - Darby) "
And the law was then "changed", as Jesus was presented as a high Priest after the order of Melchizidec:
"11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.;
17 For it is borne witness, *Thou* art a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is a setting aside of the commandment going before for its weakness and unprofitableness,
19 (for the law perfected nothing,) (Heb. 7:11-13; 17-19a. - Darby)" In other words, the law has now been set aside, and something better has taken its place. Let me repeat that, another way.
Jesus completely fulfilled the law. He did not "destroy" the law, per se. Once the law was fulfilled, by the Lord Jesus Christ, He then nailed it to the cross, even as he was nailed to the cross, and thereby taking it out of the way. No longer are we to be in bondage to a weak beggar, for that is exactly what the law is. (Gal.4:9) No longer are we to be 'afraid' of shadows, especially the shadow of death in the 'bad' sense, nor limited by a 'mirage' in the good sense. (Ps. 23:4; 44:19; Lk. 1:79; Col. 2:17; Heb. 8:5; 10:1) Psalms 107 forsees this, in a way, incidentally. In the vernacular, we now have the real thing, Christ. (Col. 2:17; Heb. 8:5; 10:1) It absolutely astounds me that so many seem to prefer to starve on only a crumb of bread and die of thirst under the bushes with Hagar and Ishmael in the wilderness of Beersheba, as opposed to dwell in the tents with Sarah and Isaac under the oaks at Mamre, where every good thing is for the asking and/or taking. That is precisely the picture given in Gal. 4:21-5:6. As my nephew would say, "Ah 'on't get it!" Nor do I, and yet I see it every day.
What about keeping the law?? As to the law, and don't forget, I'm still referring to the Mosaic law, then as a Gentile, "I could not keep it, even if I would!" For I never had it, in the first place.
Now, as a Christian, a member of the body of Christ, "I would not keep it, even if I could!" For it does not apply.
The law, and its righteousness, is fulfilled in us, rather, "who walk not by the flesh but by the Spirit.", as we love one another. (Rom. 8:4; Gal. 5:14)
As these posts are so long, I shall attempt to shortly differentiate in another set between the Mosaic Law, and the "laws" and "commandments" for the Christian, and there is also much said about this, as well. By no stretch am I advocating the heresy of "anti-nomianism", that there are no guidelines and laws. But I will here say this. Any and every principle encoded in the Mosaic law, that is directly applicable to the Christian, is restated in the NT, as 'grace principles', using the language of grace. And for whatever these principles may be, they are not a warmed-over version of the law of Moses. That is nothing more or less than what we sometimes call "legalism". And that is bondage. I'm free, in Christ, and 'under' "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus". And I will not go back into the yoke of bondage, to be a maltreated slave to "the law of sin and death". (Gal.5:1; Rom. 8:2)

In His grace,
Ed

 

I do apologize if some of the Scriptural quotes seem a bit hard to follow, with some quotes 'breaking' in the middle of verses. I edited mutiple times and could not get this to not happen.

Ed

 

But I will here say this. Any and every principle encoded in the Mosaic law, that is directly applicable to the Christian, is restated in the NT, as 'grace principles'

This is the answer to the whole thing and is not just black and white but takes study to really understand, and we still have the sinner and ungodly with us today, so you must have the blood of Christ if you want to be free.

 

This I could not have said better than you. And you are correct about the 'study' part. Were the 'average' Christian really interested in 'studying' "to show your self approved unto God", 'growing in grace', 'going' "on to maturity", having "an answer for every man that asks a reason for the hope that is in you", and having a "Sweet Hour of Prayer", can you imagine how different our lives and churches might be, as opposed to doing the one hour a week hoping for 'instant spirituality' and having 'Just a Little Talk with Jesus"?

"One man, one sinner saved by grace,
who with the help of God will run the race.
One man who runs to win, not weighted down by sin,
One man not satisfied with second place.

"One man who like a craftsman builds, with care,
his life upon God's Holy Word and prayer.
One man who'll lead the lost to Christ, at any cost,
any time, any place, anywhere.

"The world has yet to see the strength, that there could be,
poured out on such a man, from God above.
The mark that he would make, I'm sure that it would take
more than the host of Satan to remove.

""Dear Lord, I pray to Thee. Take a wretched man like me,
and use me, I will do as you command!
Raise up other men to share in this vision and this prayer.
But Lord, help me - (Lord, help me!), Lord! Help me - (Help me to be-)
Lord! Help me to be - that man - that man!""

"One Man" - C. Michael Otto

BTW, Mike Otto is a personal friend, and a pastor in the Philadelphia area.
But I think this song he wrote still says it well, and he too, says it far better than I ever could.

Ed

 

We have already established, (and I too, "believe what Apostle Paul did", as well) that I/we are not under the precepts of the law.
However were I under its precepts (from which, thankfully, I am free), - the answer to your question would be all of them- Every single precept of the 600-some odd in the Mosaic law, I have 'broken', or rather, 'not kept'. There is not one single precept that I have kept! And it would "look like this". :tonofbricks:

Do you get it, everyone? The Mosaic Law is an all or nothing proposition! Atempting to place oneself under any one of its precepts demands that one keep every one of them. Every single one! It's not a "pick and choose" deal!
And one of those precepts is to 'continually sacrifice' a lamb. Personally, I'd suggest one not "crucify the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame", but that is exactly one precept the Law would and does require - the sacrifice of 'a lamb.' I suggest when Jesus thundered from the cross, "It is Finished!", that is when He drove the nails into the Mosaic law, as He :jesusThe Lamb of God) nailed that beggar to the cross. :thumbsup: :godisgood: I'm glad He did that, and redeemed me from all that with His blood. How about any of you?

In His grace,
Ed

 

There are several Laws
There is the Law of Sacrifice which Jesus fulfilled

There is the Law of Circumcisim which was took out of the flesh and put in the heart.

There is the Law of the Commandments which the priests carried across the river Jordan in an ark and Jesus came preaching all of them.

And as I said before we are not under the Sacrificial Law, the Law of Circumcism and we are made free from the Law of Commandments not because they are not there but because we through the blood of Christ have those laws in our heart and our minds.

The Scripture that speaks if you offend in one you are guilty of all is talking about the Law of the Ten Commandments.

When Paul said the Law was for the unrighteous he meant that the sinner and ungodly are under those Ten Commandments and to be free from them is to have the blood applied to your soul. Then you don't keep them, they keep you, through the power of God in which we are kept. That is why the righteous of the Law (Ten Commandments) is fulfilled in us.

No one is under the Mosaic Law ,Moses did not give the Ten Commandments, they came from God Himself.

If you want to be free from the Law of Commandments then accept Christ in your life and be "born again".

I always say it like this: If the Authorities put up a "drunk driver sign goes to Jail", it does not affect me at all for I don't drink. Same is true with the Ten Commandments. Do you worship an idol God after being born again, I don't think so.

 

Once again, when I speak of "the Mosaic Law", I am referring to the Law of God, given unto Moses, in its entirety. In Exodus thru Deuternonomy, the precepts are said multiple times to be spoken by the LORD, and not merely that the "Ten Commandments" were written by His finger. The various categories of the Law, you mentioned, are arbitrary and entirely man made, for Scripture does not make this distinction. In fact, in at least one instance, Jesus spoke of 'Moses', and the referrence is to words that the LORD spoke directly to Moses.

This refers back to Lev. 19:18, in the same context as two of the "Big Ten".
Sorry, the distinction as to what is or is not "required" does not exist, as I'm pretty sure that Lev. 19:18 is not a part of the "Ten Commandments", and in fact, according to Jesus, as I have previously posted, is one of the two pegs on which the Ten commandments, as well as all the Law, hang. Gotta' run.

Ed

 

Romans, chapter 7
4: Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5: For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6: But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7: What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8: But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9: For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10: And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11: For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12: Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13: Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14: For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Ten Commandments.

 

A part of one of what we commonly call the Ten commandments, is in this passage, anyway. Outta' curiosity, did anyone somehow miss the part in verse four that says

as I posted, also before. Get it? "Bang! Bang! You're dead!", as we used to say as kids when we hillbillies played 'Moonshiners and Revenooers" :laugh:- uh - Oh! 'er I mean "Cowboys and Indians". We are dead to the law, and the law cannot do one earthly thing to a dead man!
But, :godisgood: we have been raised with Christ! :jesus: (Eph. 2:6; Col.2:12; 3:1) and guess what else?? We've been delivered from the law, as well. This I did not mention in the longer posts.

And one might note that the passage Bro. Bob cited, gives two of our relationships to the law.

Let's recap, shall we?!

1. We are not under the law, but under grace. (Rom. 6:14-15)
2. We are loosed from the law. (Rom. 7:2)
3. We are dead to the law. (Rom. 7:4)
4. We are delivered from the law. (Rom. 7:6)
5. We are free from the law. (Rom. 8:2)
6. We are dead through the law. (Gal. 2:19)
7. We are redeemed from the curse of the law. (Gal. 3:13)

And we are commanded to "1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[a] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage." (Gal. 5:1 - NKJV)

What more is left to say?? I can assure anyone that I have heard at least 5 times the number of sermons on "the Ten Commandments", than I ever have on these seven principles given above. That is what the Bible says; :thumbsup: "What more is left to say??"

Ed

PS I like the new smileys, as well.

 

Ed; You better listen to me!!!!

 

And something can be said for some of the older smileys, as well such as this one! :laugh: Only wish I could get about four more of them in here!

Ed

 

BTW, there Brother Bob, this last smiley you have here, is a tolerable caricature of your posted photo. Is that merely coincidence? Just wonderin'!

:laugh: {laugh} {laugh} {laugh}
OK, so I had to type out a few smileys. Heh! Heh! Heh!

Ed

 

Right down to the bump on top of my head.

 

The "bump" probably was caused by :tonofbricks:

:laugh:

Ed

 

Wrote Ed Sutton:
" No longer are we to be in bondage to a weak beggar, for that is exactly what the law is. (Gal.4:9)"

GE:
You have said it as skew and skewer than even the devil is able to.

The Law - OT - remains the Word of God, man - who are you to so speak of it?

The TC used to be God's Law written with and by His Holy Spirit ... on tables of stone. Then Through Jesus Christ God's Word became incarnated - born a human being the man Jesus Christ ... The Law of God no less than the Word of God -- God Himself, indistinguishable.
So retract your blasphemous statement!

Paul in Galatians 4:9 speaks of "THE WORLD'S" -- not of God's! And he here specifically speaks of "days", "venerated" : '"days" of the "world", of which the "queen" it is on record, was "the Day of the Lord Sun" - Sunday which Christianity has crowned unlawfully, 'the Lord (Jesus') Day", in stead of His holy Sabbath Day.
Shame on Christianity!

 

Ed Sutoon:

"Do you get it, everyone? The Mosaic Law is an all or nothing proposition! Atempting to place oneself under any one of its precepts demands that one keep every one of them. Every single one! It's not a "pick and choose" deal!
And one of those precepts is to 'continually sacrifice' a lamb. Personally, I'd suggest one not "crucify the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame", but that is exactly one precept the Law would and does require - the sacrifice of 'a lamb.' I suggest when Jesus thundered from the cross, "It is Finished!", that is when He drove the nails into the Mosaic law, as He (The Lamb of God) nailed that beggar to the cross. I'm glad He did that, and redeemed me from all that with His blood. How about any of you?"

GE:

One mistake that shows your total mistakenness is this, "as He (The Lamb of God) nailed that beggar to the cross." Get your bare facts right, before wrangling out your own preferments. It was NOT, "as He (The Lamb of God) nailed that beggar to the cross." It was as they, those beggars and servants of sin, satan and death, nailed the Son of God, the Word and Living Law of God, to the cross.

 

The Law that was "nailed to the cross" was the one seen actually being nailed to it - Jesus from Nazarite, the One conceived of the Spirit and born of the virgin and confessed by the Church the Saviour, who gave Himself a ramson for sin -- the transgression of the Law of God forever faithful to Himself. It was not Moses' law there crucified --- it was He, God's Holy -- He, would rise again vindicated, perfected, crowned, honoured, victorious as He swallowed up death.

 

"... from Nazareth ..." erratum!