"professional" pastors

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Aug 23, 2009.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    IN another thread someone said that the problem with pastors preaching what the congregation wants to hear is that they are professional and are afraid to lose their job.

    Personally, I believe that a pastor should be paid. In fact we have two paid elders at our church and I am very grateful for that.

    To have more than one man fully dedicated to the ministry is a great blessing.

    It is a slightly different topic but those I have seen who oppose the minister being often also oppose formal education for pastors.

    A pastor should be an expert in his field just as anyone in a secular vocation.
    And he is worthy of the same financial remuneration as well.
     
  2. tinytim

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    I guess you could say I am a "professional" pastor.. since i am full time.. but you can ask the church I pastor, I preach against sin, and for Christ.

    To me, if God calls a man to pastor, there is no middle ground.. either all or nothing...
    I have seen men squander their call by being afraid to go full time. They hold on to the safety of their secular jobs.
     
  3. webdog

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    Something I have pondered. Our church has 4 elders, one being the pastor (paid staff). Since we are elder led church, and all elders put a lot of their lives into being elders, why is it that only the one who preaches should be paid? I never understood this principle...
     
  4. Dale-c

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    Web, we also have 4 elders, 2 paid, 2 unpaid.

    I would not be opposed to all 4 being paid if the church could afford it. However, the other two were (are) successful in business and are considered lay elders.
    I think there is certainly room for variation here depending on the church.

    Also, the day to day operations of the church are done by the two that are paid as well as the regular preaching. The others only preach occasionally.

    I will say this:
    Anyone who does not think a pastor should be paid does not have the proper respect for that office and what his pastor does.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    I am a "professional" pastor, ordained and pastoring nearly 40 years. Educated beyond my intelligence.

    Since 1984 I have been "bi-vo" (NOT a name of a Texas Longhorn or a girlfriend of Ellen Degenerate). When planting churches or working interim, etc, none of the works can come to the point of paying me full time. So wife works and I work a part-time job to pay bills.

    Doesn't make me less "professional". Actually makes me more like the Apostle Paul than most pastors. :cowboy:
     
  6. Dale-c

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    Dr Bob, often times that is the case.
    I think you would agree, that as a church grows it is best if it can get to the point of being able to support the pastor is it not?

    Of course I have no problems with pastors who are unable to be fully supported by their church, but I do have a problem with those who don't believe a pastor should be paid at all.
     
  7. Jerome

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    James Renihan, on the London Baptist Assembly of 1689:

    "They were also concerned with a pernicious practical issue that had invaded many of the churches. The [invitation] letter states that a fundamental concern was "the great neglect of the present ministry." What they mean is this: In some of the churches, a view had been adopted which opposed the financial support of the ministers of the churches. It had probably come as a reaction to the tithes demanded in support of the clergy of the national church, but its effects were devastating. Pastors were not able to give themselves over to prayer and the ministry of the Word, and declension set in all round."
    ...

    "They unanimously adopted the 1677 Confession of Faith, and urged all the members of each church to familiarize themselves with its contents. Similarly, they declared their "Approbation" of the anonymously published book The Gospel Minister's Maintenance Vindicated (it was written by Benjamin Keach) and urged that every church obtain a copy. This book was a defense of the financial support of pastors.
    Another significant proposal that was adopted and implemented by the Assembly was to begin a fund, to be raised from all of the member churches, that might be used for three purposes: 1. To assist poor churches in providing suitable remuneration for their pastors; 2. To provide the financial means to allow pastors to itinerate in evangelism of the lost and edification of the churches in the country; and 3. To provide financial support so that promising young men might be trained in "knowledge and understanding of the Languages, Latin Greek and Hebrew" and prepared for the ministry. A standing committee of nine trustees from London churches was appointed, charged with soliciting and distributing the funds that were received.
    The Assembly also debated a series of theological questions, among which were such topics as the support of ministers..."
     
  8. Jerome

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    From Crosby's History of the English Baptists:

    "[The Baptist Assembly of 1689] likewise wrote a general Epistle to the several churches for which they were concerned, in the which they held this as a great evil, and neglect of duty in churches, that they did not make due provision for the maintenance of their ministers, according to their ability; buy which means those ministers so unprovided for, were incumber'd with wordly affairs, which render'd them uncapable of performing the duty of their holy calling, in preaching the word, and walking with their flock, as they ought to do."
     
    #8 Jerome, Aug 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2009
  9. FlyForFun

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    I think there should be a distinction between "Professional" and "Paid."

    One of the scourges of the modern church is the corporate-wanna-be pastor. I've been in corporate life for over 25 years. The last thing we need is to run a church like a corporation.

    yet we do, all too often.:BangHead:
     
  10. Jerome

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    John Gill:

    "an unpreaching pastor, bishop, or elder, is a contradiction in terms; and such are like those described by the prophet as blind and ignorant watchmen, dumb dogs that cannot bark, shepherds that cannot understand; who every one look for their gain from their quarter, though they do not the duty of their office. But, — 1. Such feed the flock, who do their work aright; give themselves up to the ministry of the word, negect all other services, at least as much as may be, that they may not be entangled with them, and be diverted by them, from their grand employment: to which they have devoted themselves, for the glory of God and the good of souls. Such give attendance to reading, to exhortation, and to doctrine ; and meditate on these things, and give themselves wholly to them, that their profiting may appear to all, and their usefulness to many."
     
  11. OldRegular

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    The Apostle Paul was one of those I believe!
     
  12. Jerome

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    Sadly, devotion to some "plurality of elders" scheme often trumps the biblical mandate to support ministers of the gospel.


    Andrew Fuller, “On Church Government and Discipline”:

    “…for a small church to have more pastors than one is as unnecessary as to have seven deacons. Such a rule must favor idleness, and confine useful ministers from extending their labours. To place two or three in a post whch might be filled with one, must leave many other places unoccupied. Such a system is more adapted for show than for promoting the kingdom of Christ.”

    “If...a plurality of [elders] be required, why is not a plurality of them supported? The office of elder in those churches which are partial to the system is little more than nominal: for while an elder is employed like other men in the necessary cares of life, he cannot ordinarily fulfil the duties of his office."
     

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