-Promise Keepers

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Berean, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. Berean

    Berean
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    Yesterday while at the hospital waiting on a SS Class Member to come from surgery PK somehow came into the conversation and I having been to one of their
    rallies or meetings in Memphis several years ago made the comment that it was a "giant pep rally" light on doctrine and deeply steeped in emotion and after investigation of the leadership found it to be more ecumenical then evangelical. My remarks was offensive to my brother and I quickly, not being the place to pursue this dropped the subject. After briefly researching the org. I find that they have encountered problems since 2000 which included finances.
    In my church today there are a group of men who feel strongly favorably toward this group, consequently my pastor does not address this openly or any other way quite frankly.
    I would very much be interested in your comments especially from some of you SBC Pastors and any articles written about this group by some of our leaders in the Convention.
     
  2. gb93433

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    I went to one of their series of meetings and came away feeling like I was impacted by one of the speakers in particular but I also felt that many who came had come looked at it as a good event. The speaker that impacted me spoke about self discipline and how we must be careful how we conduct ourselves and how we walk before God each moment. He got right down to the nitty gritty. The sermon he spoke would have probably offended most Christians because they do not like hearing that sort of thing. One of the illustrations he used was that too many are fat and cannot push themselves away from the table. He used that language in speaking to the men present. What I saw among many was that it is most likely they went back home with no encouragement from their church to live that kind of life. How many pastors would speak on being too fat when so many have their bellies hanging way over their belt. Yet that pastor spoke about the example we set and the message we send. My dad who is not a Christian has mentioned it to me several times over the years. I must admiot it is rather embarrassing. When foreigners come they see a lot of the same thing. It sends a message that the pastor who is like that, is too lazy to exercise and not disciplined enough to stop eating. Imagine what people feel like who come from foreign countries where many do not have enough to eat and they see a pastor or president of a Christian organization who is fat because of eating too much.

    The same speaker also spoke about genuine discipleship. He did not smooth over any points. He was direct and to the point. As soon as we walked out I was hoping to engage some about the sermon from that speaker but instead the men talked about what they wanted to eat for food!

    I do not see that problem as a problem with PK but with the spiritual discipline among the men attending. How can anyone walk out of a building after hearing such a powerful sermon and immediately afterward talk about the food they wanted to eat.

    I doubt that if the same sermons were spoken in the midst of many leaders from parachurch organizations and missionaries that one would notice the same attitude and hear the same kind of talk.

    Most people find what they are looking for.
     
  3. Revmitchell

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  4. thomas15

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    I'm sure that I'm not the only one of this board who attended a large PK stadium event in the mid 90s. My experience was largly positive. It is true that some of the speakers were from the charismatic movement (Jack Hayford for example) but I don't recall hearing or seeing anything that offended my doctrinal sensabilities. Everything coming from the stage was Bible.

    One particular event I went to was in RFK stadium Washington DC. There were over 70K men in attendence. One aspect of this event (and the one other stadium event I attended) has always remained with me over the years: Even after almost 3 days of being in the stadium, I can say that we left it in as fine a shape as we started with. I have been to sporting events where the place was trashed in less than 2 hours and yet after 3 days this stadium was very still clean. I have wondered what kind of discussion the stadium workers had when they discovered how well we took care of the facility.

    When we returned home, we formed small groups. My group of about 6 men stayed together for over 3 years, meeting every week. We used some of the PK materials and some non-PK materials. I shop ebay and used book websites and used book stores and buy lots of used books. I have about 5 PK books in my collection and a PK men's study Bible and really like them.

    In short, I'm sorry to see the PK movement waine. It wasn't perfect and those who insist on doctrinal purity in every aspect of their life would be uncomfortable with it and I totally understand that. Being in a stadium with 70K men singing praises to our Lord is an awsome thing though.
     
  5. Tom Butler

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    Herein (the bold part) lies part of the problem with PK. Its ecumenical emphasis by definition means doctrinal purity goes out the window.

    Here's part of its purpose statement:
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Promise Keeper is committed to reach beyond any racial and denominational barriers to demonstrate the power of biblical unity.[/FONT]

    The goal of erasing denominational barriers will of necessity be at the expense of biblical truth. It requires one to say that unity trumps doctrinal purity. It requires one to pretend that unity exists when it does not.

    Why do you think PK revised its statement on salvation to satisfy Roman Catholic objections?

    Roman Catholics and Charismatics serve on the PK Board. They have spoken at the stadium rallies.

    Now I want to make it clear that I question no one's salvation here.

    I also want to make it clear that the motivation of PK's founders was noble.

    PK has some positive goals and I have no doubt that many of its leaders and participants are godly men.

    I know men who were involved in PK and I believe they truly love the Lord.

    Now, does anybody want to speculate on why the PK movement, which thrived for a few years, now can barely draw a crowd. What do you think?
     
  6. gb93433

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    In light of James 1:22 and Mt. 28:19-20, show me one denomination that is doctrinally pure?

    The fact is that young people today are not interested in denominations they are interested in genuine Christianity. They do not really care about the name on the door so much as they care about who the people are and what goes on.

    The ability of a church to grow is directly to its ability to love.
     
  7. gb93433

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    Next Sunday ask your pastor to announce that the following Wednesday every member will be knocking on doors sharing their faith and see how many show up.
     
  8. Tom Butler

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    How does this relate to the rise and decline of PK?
     
  9. superwoman8977

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    Yeah I know I am a woman but my now ex husband and his uncle went through Promise Keepers. My uncle is still the head of Promise Keepers at our church that we used to attend. I also as a recreational activity read about the Promise Keepers and found them to be an awesome group. They reach out to men from all different walks of life and show them the way to Live their lives for Jesus in a today's world.

    Why does everyone want to judge things that help people? I know with my father (who also attends Promise Keepers in his church back home) it has so helped him. He used to drink and be nasty and just was a very unkind man and Promise Keepers has taught him how to not be angry and to live his life for the Lord. Promise Keepers reminds me of Women of Faith -- reaching out to teach others the way to the Lord --the right path.
     
  10. Tom Butler

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    I'm a Southern Baptist. The SBC doctrinal statement is on the money. Not every church in the SBC is doctrinally pure, but that's not the SBC's fault.

    The ability of a church to grow is directly related to two things--the work of the Holy Spirit and the fidelity to the scriptures.

    I grant you that Christians should demonstrate love to each other and for the lost.

    How does PK help a church to maintain fidelity to New Testament doctrine when it actually de-emphasizes it. Are you suggesting that trying to be faithful to scriptural truth is less important than some cum-bah-yah notion of unity.

    How can I be unified with people who teach, believe and practice heresy?
     
  11. webdog

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    Agreed. I'm not favorable on para-churches. You should be able to get everything you need from a promise keepers, koinonia, tres dias, Cursillo, etc. from your local church. If not, you need to find another church.
     
  12. webdog

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    Why does it take an extra-biblical organization heavy on emotion, light on substance (borrowed from New Age, btw) to "help people"? Why isnt' this the purpose of the local church?
     
  13. webdog

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    You hit the nail on the head. They offer a quick fix, artificial, emotionally charged atmosphere that veils the fact true "fellowship" is not occuring, but in actuality those who we have no business fellowshiping with are influencing us whether we know it or not. Cults use similar techniques...focus on what we have in common. If it's not the Gospel, salvation by grace through faith...there is nothing in common. Being a man doesn't put us in common, nor is it an excuse to claim "fellowship".
     
  14. gb93433

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    Too many think that PK is light on substance. However I would say that if the pastor would step up to the plate and preach and teach what Jesus did while training people the way Jesus did he would find many leaving because they would not be willing to pay the cost and be held accountable.
     
  15. John Toppass

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    While many if not most participants are looking for that good feeling of being with others for the moment only to resort back into appathy in the way they live a Christian life. Attending services with folks you mainly do not know, releases you from the accountability that we must have to gain that intimate relationship with our Lord. Walking in a Christian lifestyle is not a coward's walk. It is intentional and can only be done using God's strength for we are way too weak to make this walk ourselves.
    This also applies to those who go to Church only on Sunday morning.
     
  16. gb93433

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    I agree but that is the role of the church to hold one another accountable and to encourage one another. When I pastored I asked some men in the church who were godly men to hold me accountable. Each week I met with them to talk about the sermons I would be preaching. There were times when they suggested things. It provided a support system for me and if someone questioned my choice of sermons or other things I could always resort back to the group I met with each week.
    Jesus' disciples never prayed for opportunity but for boldness. With that in mind compare that to the latest and greatest programs coming down from the gurus of conventions and denomination.

    Over and over I am reminded of what Paul taught in Acts 20 about the role of the overseers and Holy Spirit. Today it is being taught that the personal responsibility of making disciples is the role of the Holy Spirit when God made that the responsibility of people.

    If every Christian made one disciple every three years that reproduced himself every three years then by the end of a lifetime (if the person became a Christian at age 20 and lived to be 71) that person will have reached 131,072 people.
     
  17. Tom Butler

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    I'll re-raise the question I posted early on. Why do you think PK participation has waned?
     
  18. blackbird

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    PK's has been around for years

    I have friends who think that PK's is the best thing since "sliced bread"-----everything a church should offer to men but don't

    But I have never been interested in PK's for some odd reason

    I believe, though, that in my HO-----it has waned somewhat---its not what it use to be as far as being promoted
     
  19. gb93433

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    The same reason why most churches in America have.
     
  20. dh1948

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    I have been attending PK events for years. We usually take a bus load of guys each year to one of the regional rallies.

    There are probably several reasons the participation has waned. One reason is that the newness has worn off. Many churches learned from PK that men will attend large men's conferences and have offered such conferences in their churches.

    One of the purposes of PK is to break down racial barriers. In the early years there was a fair response from our black brothers, though I am sure it was much less than PK leaders had hoped for. African American speakers and singers were added to the programs and black leaders were selected, yet it didn't help much.

    It could be that the participation has waned due to the long services. I always felt that they tried to cram too much into a short time frame. Some men get weary quickly during the marathon Saturday scheduling.

    I never saw the charismatic slant of PK as being a threat. I never heard anyone encourage anyone to speak in tongues, prophecy, or attempt to perform a miracle. The music was certainly different from the norm in Baptist churches, but I tolerated that. Some of the music I actually liked.
    The hip-hop stuff was a bit out of my comfort zone.
     

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