Promoting the proclamation of the Gospel

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Nov 10, 2015.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Many speak of a concern that they believe God has for all men having a "chance" or a equal opportunity to hear the gospel.
    Here are some well known biblical events. can you explain how each one helped promote God's purposes of gospel proclamation?

    1] God destroying the world of the ungodly with a worldwide flood?

    2]God confounding the languages at the tower of Babel?

    3] God scattering the nations worldwide?

    4] God destroying Sodom and Gomorrah?

    5]The command to destroy Amalek?
    3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

    answer all of them...or pick out one or two of your favorites
     
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  2. agedman

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    Trust this will be an interesting thread on the Creator making purposed choices.

    The Lord Jesus Christ told the disciples to go and make disciples of all nations. The message was not just for the Jews, but for everyone they came in contact. This was contrary to the typical isolationist view of God being just for Jews, only, for the Jews bear His name and He claims them as "His people."

    So, we gentiles (following the same program) are to go, and who we meet of any nationality are to be witnessed and discipled without regard to background or station in life.

    However, none of that removes the purposed determination of God in doing as He pleases with who(m) ever. (don't remember if I need an "m" or not)

    What you have done in the OP is give great examples of what God has done in the past and by example will be done in the future. There will come a time when God has had enough of the rebellious heathen humankind and the stinking thinking that they can get to heaven by invention of contrivances.
     
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  3. Iconoclast

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    In what way did the five examples given in the original post promote the proclamation of the gospel either directly or indirectly?
     
  4. agedman

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    Both directly and indirectly, (imo) because it gave real life examples of God's intolerance of evil and His eternal authority over judgment.

    Directly to the people of that time and indirectly by examples given as warning and worship to our time.
     
  5. Iconoclast

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    These judgments protected the godly line.
    God is concerned with His people worldwide.
    These passages cannot otherwise be reconciled with a false message claiming otherwise.
     
  6. Jerome

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    Wasn't there a discussion about the 'Serpent's seed' posted in this thread? It seems to have disappeared. Weird.
     
  7. Iconoclast

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    I did not see it if it was...

    There is discussion about God protecting the seed of the woman....from the seed of the serpent here though.
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    here we see this working in redemptive history;
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    here is a bit more;
     
  10. Iconoclast

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    here Edwards suggests a way many have seen these events;
     
  11. agedman

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    Are threads being "snipped" without indication?

    Perhaps it is merely my mind playing tricks.

    I looked the other day for some time for a thread, only to see I was looking in the wrong forum. :(
     
  12. Jerome

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    There definitely was an early post in this thread talking about the serpent's seed that's been 'disappeared'. Weird.
     
  13. Iconoclast

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    II. The whole time of this period is sometimes in Scripture called the end of the world, 1 Corinthians 10:11. "Now all these things happened unto them for exsamples; and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world am come." And the apostle, Hebrews 9:26. in this expression of the end of the world, means the whole of the gospel-day, from the birth of Christ to the of judgment: "But now once in the end of the world, hath he appeared, to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

    these verses can change your whole understanding...
     
  14. agedman

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    To capture what 1 Corinthians 1o:11 is about needs to first consider this:

    For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
    There is a reason that Paul is writing this so that the focus of the Corinthian folks would then see that their own immorality was inexcusable when continuing:

    Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.” We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.​

    It is in that context that Paul writes what you quoted above:

    These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.​

    So the question must be asked is the "culmination of the ages to come" referring to a period of time or to the completed salvation that is in fact culminated?

    The answer is to finish reading that paragraph:
    So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.
    It is evident then that Paul is centering on the overt sinful acts, and states "in this last age" or "in this period of divine "dispensation" that Salvation plan is complete.

    The question is did Paul consider that there were to be no further periods of time? The answer is no.

    Peter giving the statement "...in these last days..." does not imply that there are no more periods of time following this in which the Holy Spirit is poured out upon. Rather, that following all the previous era's in which God dealt with humankind, He has "in these last days" brought the culmination of the plan.

    Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians 2 (imo) to let the folks know that there are certain matters (events) that will take place before the coming (Second Coming) of the Lord Jesus Christ back to the earth.

    Again, what Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2 does not mean that the world ends, rather it is specific to the "culmination" of the salvation plan "in these last days" and not an indication that all things have concluded as far as this current heaven and earth.

    There is no reason to take 1 Corinthians to the point of excluding the millennial reign of Christ, and then the final judgment of God at the white throne.
     
  15. agedman

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    Here again, as shown above is the same principle in place. The writer is using the whole of the chapter to indicate the living of the believer in these times is to be based upon how God has dealt with sin.

    It is not a matter of excluding any future periods of time, but indicating that God has presented the completed plan in the last of the eras in which humankind was able to come to God (through various means of sacrifice and offerings).

    There is no reason to consider the statement is to be taken as no further era's occur. What IS to be held is that God has no further development in the grand "plan of salvation" that is yet to be given. That the Cross was complete, "It is Finished" is more than just the proclamation of death, but that the very work of God bringing salvation to humankind is complete.

    One does not take "It is Finished" as time stopped, do they?

    Neither should one take "He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself." as signifying that time stopped when "It is Finished" was declared.

    Remember, "consummation of the ages" IS held by some to mean there are no more ages to come, HOWEVER, there are those who see within the context, that when ever such wording is used, it (the wording) is placed as indicating the end of how God would allow humankind to approach. There is no more that God will do in future ages as to the matter of "providing a lamb." The wording, as shown in the previous post, is placed in putting the current era in contrast with how God dealt previously in the ages past. Paul makes this abundantly clear in 2 Thessalonians 2.
     
  16. Iconoclast

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    Yes.....each part of revealed truth as pieces of a puzzle fit in some way.
    That is to say ....the happy promise verses.....
    And the fearful verses describing the judgement of God....go hand in hand to give the completed written revelation.

    That being said we also notice that not each revealed truth made it easier for the gospel to spread worldwide.

    Spreading out the people...scattering them,changing language, meant that many would perish in their sin.
    God for reasons known only to Himself has appointed the times and seasons that people would be visited with His salvation.
     
  17. Iconoclast

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    Hello Aged man,

    And these two posts I see we have some agreement and we can be glad for that and then we have some things I think I'm seeing a little different particular on the one on Hebrews 9 which i think is focused more on the person work of the Lord Jesus Christ not as much on the conduct of the professor believers so I'll get back to this when i can get to a keyboard.
     
  18. agedman

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    I would never desire that you felt we did not have agreement and room for disagreement.

    More than once, I have read your great posts and considered them as scholarly and well worth consideration.

    Let me see if I can give you a bit more information about Hebrews that will clarify (hopefully) and that way you can be more precise.

    The chapter divide was established at this verse:
    "Now even the first covenant had regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary."​

    And the next 10 verses continue to discuss what went on in that earthly sanctuary as it narrows down to focus on the work of the priests and then specifically the high priest.

    Verse 11 - 12 declares:
    But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.​

    I love the way the writer mentions that "Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come." Then he goes to the past tense to state what is already accomplished by the events of the Cross and following resurrection.

    Verse 16 gives the reason:
    For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.​

    To what end was this the reason?
    Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

    So what is the application for the believer?
    And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
    Now that is a quick overview to bring us back to verse 26.
    Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.​

    See the words "consumation of the ages?" The application to no more in the future ages, is inconsistent with the balance of the chapter.

    Rather, the "consummation" or the finished work of God's plan of redemption is not going to be modified or any addition made.

    What an awesome statement the Lord Jesus Christ made when declaring "It is Finished"

    Here is a brief statement (Bible.org) of the single Greek word we state as three.
    Literally translated the word tetelestai means, “It is finished.” The word occurs in John 19:28 and 19:30 and these are the only two places in the New Testament where it occurs. In 19:28 it is translated, “After this, when Jesus knew that all things were now completed, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled, he said, ‘I thirst.’” Two verses later, he utters the word himself: “Then when he received the sour wine Jesus said, ‘It is finished,’ and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.”

    The word tetelestai was also written on business documents or receipts in New Testament times to show indicating that a bill had been paid in full. The Greek-English lexicon by Moulton and Milligan says this:

    “Receipts are often introduced by the phrase [sic] tetelestai, usually written in an abbreviated manner...” (p. 630). The connection between receipts and what Christ accomplished would have been quite clear to John’s Greek-speaking readership; it would be unmistakable that Jesus Christ had died to pay for their sins.
    Personally, I like the phrase, "Paid in Full."

    But even that doesn't seem to carry the full weight of the statement. There is the aspect of not only "Paid in Full" but "Remembered no More" that is also must be considered as integral to understanding of the meaning.
     
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