proper etiquette and ladies

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Brother Adam, Dec 27, 2001.

  1. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    This will probably be hard for some of you to keep a straight face on this thread, but ah, here we go [​IMG]

    On another thread in another forum me and Barnabas began discussing proper etiquette amongst ourselves. I believe this would be a better forum for it though.

    Now I believe we should be free to share what we will so long as we are not being sinful or doing anything with wrong intentions. For instance, lets say there are words, culturally, that a person finds appropriate to use in a certian manner, yet others find offensive. Should that person be required to censor their words because another person doesn't like it?

    Let's look at this on a larger scale: Should we censor great works of art that display nudity because a few may not be able to handle looking at those works of art? Or is it more appropriate to say "That is fine, you don't have to visit the art gallary".

    Should material be specially censored for "ladies"? Barnabas choose to censor my words because there were "ladies" present. I guess I don't understand first off how a male can speak for females. A female friend of mine burps louder than I do, so I doubt she would find it offensive ;)

    So...is there an unspoken "proper etiquette" rule? Who is in charge of deciding what proper etiquette is? Do moderators and administar's have the right to censor someones words because they don't like what someone has to say? Or should they only censor what is wrong or sinful?

    Cheers!

    UNP
    Adam
     
  2. javalady

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    Brother, did you know that "courtesy" is taught in the Bible? Crude language is condemned. Vulgar actions & activities are also rebuked. Search carefully through the epistles and you'll see references to inconvenient jesting, course language, the fruit of the Spirit (which are great definitions of good manners!) and other such topics covered fully.
    I won't do your homework for you. Grab your concordance & do some homework! :rolleyes:
     
  3. rlvaughn

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    I am not all that old, but I remember a time when men who "cussed like sailors" would not use those words in front of ladies. Now I realize there may be a certain double standard there, but I appreciated men giving that kind of respect to ladies.
     
  4. Lorelei

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    Romans comes to mind. Granted it is a different topic, but I honeslty think it could apply here. Your personal preference shouldn't matter, you should wish not to offend any brother or sister in Christ.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>
    Romans 14:19
    Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
    20
    For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
    21
    It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Just my thoughts.

    ~Lorelei

    [ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Lorelei ]
     
  5. Dr. Bob

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    Bible Etiguette 101: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father.
    Treat younger men as brothers,
    [Treat] older women as mothers,
    [Treat] younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Would I show my younger sister an obscene picture?
    Would I parade out my filthy language as "poetic license" in front of my Mom?
    Would I talk back to my Dad or even question his decisions to "censor" my behavior?

    I "could", but I'd have a broken arm tomorrow. Proper decorum, especially on the internet, is mandatory.

    Hence the **** appear occasionally as our automatic censors kick in.
     
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyfree432:
    This will probably be hard for some of you to keep a straight face on this thread, but ah, here we go [​IMG]

    On another thread in another forum me and Barnabas began discussing proper etiquette amongst ourselves. I believe this would be a better forum for it though.

    Now I believe we should be free to share what we will so long as we are not being sinful or doing anything with wrong intentions.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    JB: "Adam,

    What are your intentions for parading this discussion out in public after an elder brother has already rebuked you that it offends him greatly? Is it to embarrass Bro. Barnabas? Is it to show everyone how smart you think you are by debating the topic? Is it pure rebellion by saying that nobody can tell you what to do or say? Or is it pure sin? How pure are your intentions in this conversation?"

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> For instance, lets say there are words, culturally, that a person finds appropriate to use in a certian manner, yet others find offensive. Should that person be required to censor their words because another person doesn't like it?[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    JB: "If one respects the other, then probably so."

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Let's look at this on a larger scale: Should we censor great works of art that display nudity because a few may not be able to handle looking at those works of art? Or is it more appropriate to say "That is fine, you don't have to visit the art gallary".[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    JB: "We are not at the 'art gallary'. We are at the Baptist Board. We don't go around whooping and hollering like heathens at the art gallery and we don't go around saying vulgar things and trying to cause dissention amongs the membership and administration on the Baptist Board. We are here to lift each other up not pump up our egoes and show off our rebellion."

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Should material be specially censored for "ladies"? Barnabas choose to censor my words because there were "ladies" present. I guess I don't understand first off how a male can speak for females. A female friend of mine burps louder than I do, so I doubt she would find it offensive ;)[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    JB: "If the administration of this board sees fit to do so, then yes, we should censor it. And we have every right to do so."

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>So...is there an unspoken "proper etiquette" rule? Who is in charge of deciding what proper etiquette is? Do moderators and administar's have the right to censor someones words because they don't like what someone has to say? Or should they only censor what is wrong or sinful?

    Cheers!

    UNP
    Adam[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    JB: "I sure wish someone would censor this rebellion of yours, because it is wrong and sinful."

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  7. FundamentalDan

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph Botwinick:


    JB: "I sure wish someone would censor this rebellion of yours, because it is wrong and sinful."

    Joseph Botwinick
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    It is really interesting that I just stumbled onto this board for the first time in a long time, and I see this classic post of JBotwinick's. I remembered why I much prefer the TabascoBot of the FFF chat to the JBot of the BB.

    While I in no way condone crude or inappropriate language, I do get tired of some arrogant person cutting out what they don't like about my post. I personally believe that if something is not crude or cursing, it should be left the way it is. I find myself antsy on this forum that I will say the wrong thing and get my post clipped and pasted by somebody who has a little too much arrogance.

    Hey, Joseph, just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean he is being rebellious. I find it amazing that he should not dare question the policies of one of the "elders" on the board or he's REEEEEEEBBBBBellious. Why not? Isn't that what the board is about? It also gives you an excellent opportunity to show a dignified, elderly response showing the yuppie the error of his ways, instead of responding in childish kind. (An opportunity you did not take, by the way) With that kind of arrogant attitude of "don't you dare question me", you would make an excellent IFBer. Perhaps you were thinking of joining our ranks...


    Sneakin' over from the FFF,

    FundamentalDan
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

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    You're just upest that the Arkansas Razorbacks are going to beat the Oklahoma Sooners in the Cotton Bowl... ;)

    Joseph Botwinick

    PS: Perhaps I will become an IFBer...wouldn't that be a trip? :D
     
  9. FundamentalDan

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    Good night, Joseph, you made me laugh on that one. Are you trying to get on my good side???

    Actually, I think the OU Sooners are going to send the Razorbacks Racin Back to the hills of Arkansas. But, if they don't, I am going to have to endure a lot of heckling from some Arkansawyers in our college.


    FundamentalDan
     
  10. Helen

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    Not speaking from a biblical point of view (that was done very well above), but just as a woman and, I hope, a lady here, I appreciate the restraint being requested. I appreciate the respect and courtesy so rarely offered anymore. Even apart from biblical commands, such restraint and respect does two things: it keeps the tone of the board high and it encourages the shyer souls to come on. People who would never dare to post on a board where they might be mocked or get crude language thrown at them are free to post here on the BB. The discussions might get somewhat heated at times, but they are not allowed to get vulgar, or drop down to gutter level.

    I really, really appreciate that.

    Adam, I know that the world today is 'open.' As a matter of honesty, that is to be commended. But open does not have to mean crude or offensive. I am reminded of a stage one of my sisters went through in college. Everything was to be natural. Artificial was wrong. Therefore deoderant, being artificial, was wrong. It was hard to be in the same room with her for awhile. She grew out of it. Courtesy towards others is now big on her list of priorities, even though she is not a Christian. I am very grateful for that!

    There is no reason bodily functions cannot remain private in the main. There is, as well, no reason for crude language short of a deficient vocabulary or mind.

    Or think of it this way -- why not make yourself easy to love instead of hard to love? Why not be appreciated instead of tolerated?

    [​IMG]

    Helen

    [ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Helen ]
     
  11. Jamal5000

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    Hi Adam!

    Like Paul said: 'Everything is permissible' but not everything is constructive. 'Everything is permissible' but not everything is beneficial.

    You must approach women with general Southern (gotta be southern, brother :D) ettiquette as socially accepted but still not compromise the bible: be as polite and considerate as Jesus said AND be yourself. Some ladies HATE it when you burp arounsd them. As shocking as this sounds, some women do not even bat an eye if you accidently pass gas around them.

    You have to feel out each woman, but ALWAYS be over-considerate until SHE gives you UNDENIABLE reason to act more relaxed. Above all, treat her as you want her to treat you.

    Happy New Year, Adam [​IMG]
     
  12. Brother Adam

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    Interesting perspectives, thanks for your responses!

    "I sure wish someone would censor this rebellion of yours, because it is wrong and sinful."

    Really? Prove it.

    UNP
    Adam
     
  13. Gina B

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    Psst, Adam. over here ---&gt; I'll tell you what I told my little brother a long time ago when his dad told him to do something he thought was unjust.
    First, I stayed neutral because I knew they BOTH could whoop me, lol!
    Here's the speech, I'll modify it to fit the situation. :D
    Sure it seems unfair! But first, even if he's dead wrong he's your elder and therefore in authority over you. Sure, all you did was forget your Bible (post a silly word) and he's over-reacting by making you do all this extra work (censoring your post) but what will it really benefit you to refuse to say you were wrong and refuse to do what he said? (refuse to say you were wrong and continue arguing the point) If you really feel that he's wrong and you're right, wouldn't you be showing good judgement and maturity by showing that you could handle unfairness? Your whole life's gonna be full of battle's, and these little one's just aren't worth fighting...save your time and energy for the big ones!
    Hey, *he* ended up listening anyhow, thought I'd give it a shot. [​IMG]
    da Gina
    (oh, and at the very end picture me giving you this big pleading look that says I'll be very wounded if you don't listen to me because I love you..kinda like this only really mournful like :( )
     
  14. Ernie Brazee

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    Where are the pastors? When I see this discussion my first question is what church does Adam attend? Does he have a godly pastor? If no t i will be praying that god will lead hime to a good church where many of his questions are answered on a regular basis from the pulpit. It is the CHURCH that is the pillar and ground of the truth, not a bulletin board, expecially this one. There are so many varied opinions that one would be very confused. The Bible is our only authority and source for truth. Men's opinions count for nothing if not based on bible truth!

    Ernie
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyfree432:
    Interesting perspectives, thanks for your responses!

    "I sure wish someone would censor this rebellion of yours, because it is wrong and sinful."

    Really? Prove it.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    JB: "No need. You just proved it yourself with your attitude. I will be praying for you."

    Joseph Botwinick

    [ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Joseph Botwinick ]
     
  16. Barnabas H.

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    So sorry, I have not seen this thread earlier, but appreciate all the good comments and sincere reactions. I don’t think Adam meant to go against the authorities, or being disrespectful, he simply wanted to sooth his inner turmoil by obtaining some uninvolved answers before he lays the matter to rest. You or I may not have used similar methodology but I can appreciate where he is coming from. So, when I have seen this thread and read through your kind comments, I thought that I add my two-cents worth by illuminating the course of events leading to the alleged censorship.

    The words which were edited out from ThankGodForBillyGraham (quite an impressive name) and flyfree432 was something to do with the bodily function of which I would refer to as “passing the wind,” and of which Jamal5000 put it slightly different by saying, “pass gas.” But TGFBG used the common form of the word, of which I have found offensive for the reasons mentioned in reference to the ladies. TGFBG had a deep, soul searching, need for prayer and my reply to him was given in the same thread highlighting out several favorite Bible verses from Psalm 119 (such as 11, 67, 92, 105, 165, and 176 to name a few). After deleting the offensive word, I closed in his sentence, and by looking at it no one could possibly tell that it was edited because the text remained intact, the prayer request sincere, and the whole thing had fluidity.

    Following my post came Adam’s observation and comments. To my surprise he used the same word by describing the body function, of which I promptly edited out. Then I left a gentle reminder for both young gentlemen to kindly keep the descriptive bodily functions off the board because the presence of ladies. To my brief note flyfree432 immediately reacted and was chastising me for editing out a word, which is perfectly all right. After all, said he, “burping” may be offensive for some ladies but even ladies do burp. Judging by his reaction I could see that Adam did not remember his own post, nor was he able to read the other person’s post (for that has been already edited), because he was merely referring to the word “burping” and not the other body function.

    One of our regular member, Kenneth, was reading the high profile reaction by Adam and wrote a humorous essay of his own, how “burping” may be offensive to ladies (including his wife – he is being 24 and married), and he was kind of jovial about the whole thing. My reply was rather informative and I let the parties know exactly what words I have edited out. At which time Kenneth went back to his own post and re-wrote the whole thing. He apologized for his earlier remarks (of which could not be seen any longer for he re-wrote the entire post). Seeing that the thread went into an undesirable direction, from an earnest prayer request to discussion, I thought it wise to close it. I sent a PM (Private Email) to the Webmaster and asked his advise to handle the matter. When he read the thread the Webmaster removed it from public view. So that is where we stand now.

    But the subject matter remains, and it invites an earnest answer to Adam. Otherwise he would not have opened this thread. The question is, since our pretty open and often rudely permissive society encourages the use of certain words, which are highly expressive, should we on BaptistBoard.com follow suit? I respectfully asked Adam to find out the answer to this question from his elders (meaning his parents and close relatives or even his Pastor) but he chose this medium. I don’t know who closed this thread, for I had to open it to post these closing comments of mine.

    In summary I’d like to state that on BaptistBoard.com we have over two thousand people registered. Many of these people are ladies, and many of them are young people (14 or even younger). Although some of them maybe “street wise” concerning the matters of the world, many of them are innocent and are allowed by their parents to log into our site simply because it says “Baptist.” We owe these people the purity of the language, the security of the site and the warm hospitality of the members. When I first heard the inception of this board form the Webmaster, I had a concept that this board will build people up. It will encourage those who are downtrodden, lift up those who are in the valley of the shadow of death, and teach those who are earnestly and sincerely searching for the things of God. I still have these as my highest goals. Unfortunately sometime I am faced with such things as the reason of this thread, and forced to take a step back. But it is temporary, for the benefit of this board far outweighs the heartaches. I trust that those of you, who happen to read this entire thread, will pray for every Moderator and Administrator of this board, because they are doing an important job. And as once Nehemiah said, in reference of the important job he was doing, he said: “I cannot come down.” He was doing the work the Lord entrusted upon him, and he could not come down. With your prayers our Moderators and Administrators will also do the work, and with your help they will do it as God bids them to do. Thank you for your part in this great work, and thank you for your prayers. May the Lord bless you all real good, and have a Happy & Joyous New Year! [​IMG]

    [ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: Barnabas ]
     
  17. Brother Adam

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    Thank you for your insightful, godly post. The words were used with the best intentions, to lift up TGFBG with a little humor who seemed so depressed at the time. Since then it has gotten a wee bit out of control and I have been accused of condoning things I have never condoned and doing things I have never done. Though I still see no offense with the word I will refrain from using it in any future postings and consider the matter closed.

    God Bless,
    Adam

    [ December 28, 2001: Message edited by: flyfree432 ]
     
  18. Rev. Joshua

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    Adam,

    One further thought. Different communities have different rules for behavior. Most on this board would argue that all baptists agree on only one set of rules: The Bible. Nevertheless, we know that any two baptist will differ on how those rules should be interpreted and applied.

    In any social group I've been a part of in the past thirty years, there have not been separate rules for what is said in front of women and what is said in front of men (chilren, of course, are a different matter). Nevertheless, it should come as not surprise to you that the folks on this board, many of whom hold to eighteenth-century social views in many other areas, would also hold to the view that women are too delicate for certain vivid imagery.

    In any other company, except perhaps a gathering of women in their sixties in the rural South, I would say that your use of that word would be perfectly appropriate. Here, though, different rules clearly apply.

    Joshua
    Who had a female drill-sergeant whose language was anything but "delicate."
     
  19. Aaron

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    Funny,

    If I had started this thread my post would have been deleted posthaste (or at the very least the thread would have been locked down) and I would have received a strongly-worded private message (and some not-so-private) about how inappropriate it is to discuss the decisions of the moderators openly.

    :confused:

    Adam, speaking on the basis of all the "advice" I've received, you naughty boy! [​IMG]

    Or did the rules change and no one think to tell me? :rolleyes:

    [ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  20. Brother Adam

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    ZZZZZZZAPPP!

    [ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: flyfree432 ]
     

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