Prophets and healing Gifts of yesterday?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Robina, Dec 22, 2006.

  1. Robina

    Robina
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    Why are we taught that there are no prophets or people who have the gift of healing today? I thank God for the congregation He sent me and I love my brothers and sisters in the Lord very much, but I don't agree with this. Jesus said in the last days our son's and daughters will prophecy and our old men will dream dreams. Are we not in the last days? Can anyone give me scripture to explain this way of thinking to me? This has been very heavy on my heart. Also can someone explain what is the differences between someone who prophecy and someone who dreams of things that happens in the future. Thank you for your time.


    May God bless you
    Robina
     
  2. Aaron

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    I know of no one who teaches that. What I understand to be taught, and what I agree with, and what you will find is that when the word of Christ dwells in you richly (Col. 3:16) there is little need of special revelation. When I became a man, I put away childish things...

    However, where the word of God is scarce, and in times of extreme agony, the Lord in his mercy will sometimes do extraordinary things to confirm and comfort His saints.

    But ordinarily, if a "prophecy" agrees with the Scripture, it is needless. If it doesn't, it's false.

    Now healing...who do you know today who has the gift of healing?
     
  3. Robina

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    Maybe I misunderstood my pastors. I will asks again, but I don't think I did. It's kind of hard to misunderstand three different people saying the same thing. As for someone with the gift of healing, no I don't know anyone who have that gift. But just because I haven't met someone with that gift doesn't mean that there isn't someone out there with it. Can you give me scripture that backs up the fact that these gifts isn't in today's world.



    May God bless you
    Robina
     
  4. Brother Bob

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    Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

    (The deadly thing and serpents is the false doctrine in the land, it is not to handle real snakes. That would tempting God.)

    Jam 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

    (It is the power of prayer that does the healing right from the Lord Himself)

    Jam 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

    (Again, if you do not believe that you can be healed by the power of prayer through faith, then by all means do not practice it, but if you are as I am and you are sick, then do what the scripture says and have the Elders of the Church lay hands on you and pray for healing).

    There will be several say this is over and done away with but I for one have seen it heal people. Even the doctors now request that a family have their Pastor or church come in and pray for someone. They have did studies and saw for themselves that people who have faith heal much better than those who do not. I had someone come from one of the Hospitals to my home and interview me over faith healing for they were interested in it.

    Prophesy?
    There are different ways of prophesy and one is to have some kind of reveiling from Heaven that is different than scripture of a happening such as a mighty earthquake. I don't believe we have the power to do that.

    Another prophesy, is to tell of the second coming of Christ. Or to tell of the Scriptures to others, the resurrection of the dead, the great White Throne Judgement, etc. That is why both men and women can prophesy in these cases and that certainly is happening all over the world today.

    There will be plenty that disagree with me but thats alright, they just don't know what they are missing out on.
     
    #4 Brother Bob, Dec 22, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2006
  5. Grasshopper

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    No, the Bible is clear that the "last days" occured 2000 years ago.

    Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel:
    Act 2:17 "And it shall be in the last days, says God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.

    Heb 1:1 God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
    Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds,

    And so they did 2000 years ago:

    Act 21:9 And there were four virgin daughters to this one, who prophesied

    Act 9:10 And there was a certain disciple in Damascus named Ananias. And the Lord said to him in a vision, Ananias! And he said, Behold me, Lord.

    Act 22:17 And it happened to me, I returning to Jerusalem and praying in the temple, I became in an ecstasy.

    Act 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night. A certain man of Macedonia stood, begging him, saying, Come over into Macedonia and help us!

    Act 27:23 For tonight an angel of God stood beside me, whose I am and whom I serve,


     
  6. Robina

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    I'm sorry, but I don't understand. If we are not in the last days what are we in? Please explain.




    God bless you
    Robina
     
  7. Brother Bob

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    The Last days began 2000 years ago but are as 1 day with the Lord. We still are in the Last days waiting on the return of the Lord.

    2Peter: 3

    3: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

    4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

    5: For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

    6: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

    7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

    8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    I don't think the Lord has come back yet?

    Look up the word prophesy and see if it don't say to tell of the second coming of Christ. I think my dear old Mother prophesied. Preaching is prophesying but all prophesying is not preaching. To tell people of the word of the Lord is to prophesy.
     
    #7 Brother Bob, Dec 22, 2006
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  8. mountainrun

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    Robina, the so-called faith healers of today can't even heal a cold.
    There is no evidence that this gift, which was exclusive to the apostles and some close associates, now exists.
    There is no need for prophecy of new revelation since the canon is completed and we have all we need in the Bible.

    MR
     
  9. Grasshopper

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    We are in the Church Age/New Covenant:

    Eph 3:20 Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
    Eph 3:21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen.

    Don’t be fooled into thinking the “last days” are synonymous with the Church Age, they are not. The “last days” were a very specific and short period of time dealing with the last days of Old Covenant Israel and the Mosaic economy.
     
  10. Brother Bob

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    The so called faith healers can't heal a cold of which I agree.

    To call in the Elders when you are sick is to pray for God to heal you.
    You are comparing this with people like Benny Henn and that is not what it is whatsoever. How come we have a "prayer request" forum on this board? If we can't be healed by faith in God then why does the scriptures say so.

    You do err by not knowing the gift of praying for the sick is with us till the Lord comes back.

    Ask of the Lord in faith believing and it shall be granted.

    Eph: 4
    6: One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
    7: But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
    8: Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
    9: (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
    10: He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
    11: And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    12: For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


    The focus of prophecy is not just future events though, this is only part of the prophetic gifting. Prophets often brought words of comfort, exhortation or general upliftment to the Church. Paul teaches in Corinthians that it is for the benefit of the whole body. It is not meant in Christianity for believers to know the future. But it is important for God to speak to believers as he does through his prophets.
     
  11. menageriekeeper

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    Roberta, you've asked a complicated question and one for which there are a variety of possible answers.

    I for one believe the gifts of healing and prophecy are reserved for the spreading of the gospel. By gifts I mean that an individual person, such as the apostle Paul, can touch someone and heal them or speak the future and it happens. Does that mean such gifts don't exist now? Certainly not. There are still places and people in this world that haven't heard the Word and God in His grace gives the bearer the gifts he needs to do the work.

    Healing in our time and from the time even of the early church is done as Brother Bob described. This is different from an individual being able to touch you and heal you. I also believe that this type of healing is for the Body of believers only and will have no effect on someone not saved.

    A study of the scriptures I believe will bear me out. Look at who was healed by a touch, whether Christ's or an apostle's. It was always someone unsaved. Now look at the laying on of hands as described by Brother Bob. Who was that for? This ceremony was prescribed for believers. And, sometimes God said no. Look at Paul again. God told him that grace was sufficient and allowed Paul's "thorn in the side" to continue.

    Now, as for the question of prophecy. Why would one need prophecy? God has already given us everything we need to know in order to please Him, what other reason is there for prophecy? If we knew everything that was to befall us because we could foretell the future, how would we ever demonstrate our faith?
     
    #11 menageriekeeper, Dec 22, 2006
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  12. Brother Bob

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    I for one believe preaching is prophseying but we don't prepare our sermons, we come to the stand and wait on the Lord to give us what to preach that day. I guess that is why they disagree with me on here for they have to have a written sermon. Yet they will say, God sure blessed me to sing that song. Well, if He did then that was prophesy. Or they will say, even if they have a written sermon, God sure opened that up to me today. If they say that then they are prophesying. Not the type of prophesying where something new has been revelated to them but that God had opened up their understanding to be able to preach it that day. That is prophesying.
    Even though they don't want to admit it but if they say God was in on the preaching then it was prophesying.
     
    #12 Brother Bob, Dec 22, 2006
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  13. Brother Bob

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    These are the gifts given to the church and the Gentiles included, I guess you could pick out the ones you believe and cast the others away.

    1 Corth: 12

    1: Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
    2: Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
    3: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
    4: Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    5: And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
    6: And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
    7: But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
    8: For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
    9: To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
    10: To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
    11: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
    12: For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
    13: For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
    14: For the body is not one member, but many.
     
    #13 Brother Bob, Dec 22, 2006
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  14. Grasshopper

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    Yea, who needs to spend time during the week studying. :laugh:
     
  15. Brother Bob

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    Grasshopper;
    No offense, but do sometime you feel the Lord just takes over when you are delivering a sermon?

    How do you answer 1 Corth 12 ???

    Also, I study as much as you ever did. You know from being on here I have to be able to defend my doctrine, such as now.
     
  16. Marcia

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    Giving my views here......Prophecy in the OT was speaking out God's word, which was given by revelation from God. Sometimes this included words about the future. Now that we have the complete canon, prophecy is merely speaking out the truth of God's word - we don't need prophets who get direct revelation from God now. We have the Bible, which is sufficient.

    I think Brother Bob said that the last days began with Jesus on earth and we are still in it. Some people believe that prophecy from Joel about visions and such was fulfilled at Pentecost and in the early establishment of the church.

    In the OT, both of these were revelations. Such "dreams" in the OT were given by God - such as to Joseph (his brothers bowing down to him which foreshadowed him being Pharoah's right hand guy) and to Daniel.

    I believe that the sign gifts of tongues, healing, and raising the dead, as well as dream interpretation (which is not mentioned as a gift anyway) were miraculous signs to show that the apostles were true followers of Jesus, and this was done for the establishment and spreading of the early church and the gospel. I do not think these gifts are needed or are active now.
     
  17. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    Most people who ask about the validity of certain gifts are simply looking for someone to agree with them. I see little to no value in the argument over them. Paul wrote that "Christ Crucified" is the "Power of God". Are you looking for power that comes from God ? Preach the cross to the lost.

    The Jews were always looking for a sign to validate Gods movement. The sign gifts of miracles has their time, place and purpose but Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Paul wrote that the Jews require a sign but we preach Christ crucified. Man is still requiring a sign but the power is in the cross not the gifts.

    The rich man cried out to Abraham in hell and said please send someone back from the dead to tell my relatives. Abraham said if they will not respond to Moses and the prophets (The Word of God) then no amount of ressurrected witnesses will pursuade them either.

    The Jews requested a sign from Jesus. Jesus responded by calling them evil and adulterous. The greatest sign ever given was that of Jonah. Sign gifts have their place. But the cross is the power of God unto salvation. Never fail to preach the cross.
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    Anyone care to explain????

    You say we have the canon now, well here it is.

    1 Corth 12

    (BTW, there is no raising the dead in these gifts).

    1: Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
    2: Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
    3: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
    4: Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    5: And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
    6: And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
    7: But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
    8: For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
    9: To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
    10: To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
     
    #18 Brother Bob, Dec 23, 2006
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  19. blackbird

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    If the Holy Spirit were a Bomber pilot and He had a choice as to which runway He would use in order to lift His bomber in the air ---- which do you suppose He would want to use

    A 7500 foot concrete runway

    or

    A dirt path filled with pot holes

    No telling how many sermons "crash and burn" on takeoff because the preacher didn't meet God in the Pastor's Study during the week!!!
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    If your sermon was enlightened by the Holy Spirit then that is prophesying.

    What about meeting Him on Sunday?

    Maybe you could enlighten us on 1 Corth: 12?

    Have you ever just left your written sermon on Sunday and let the Spirit lead you?

    Do you believe the Spirit flows from one to another in church service.

    No wonder there is a thread on here about people going to sleep.
     
    #20 Brother Bob, Dec 23, 2006
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