Prosecution Rests, Libby's Turn Now

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Daisy, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. Daisy

    Daisy
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    So far, Fitzgerald's witnesses have said that Cheney's office was in a tizzy because of Joe Wilson's editorial and Cheney declassified some information for Libby to leak, Libby heard from other staffers that Plame worked for the CIA, certain reporters heard from Libby that Plame did and Tim Russert did not tell Libby about Plame as Libby seems to have known before he did. Ari Fleisher also passed along Plame's identity to two reporters, but without knowing it was classified.
    http://www.baptistboard.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=23


    Novak testified that Armitage leaked her identity, but Carl Rove confirmed it. It doesn't look as though Rove will be called to testify. Did Rove know her identity was classified?
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/12/cia.leak/index.html

    It would be interesting if Cheney testified.

    What I'd like to know is when the VP's office told Bush the truth.
     
  2. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    I would like to know what crime was committed?
     
  3. Rufus_1611

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    Libby has been charged with "Obstruction of Justice" and "Perjury".
     
  4. Daisy

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    The CIA requested the investigation into the leak of Plame's identity. Bush demanded to know who leaked and appointed a special investigator to find out.

    Cheney maintains that he is statutorily incapable of illegal leaking because any classified info he leaks automatically becomes unclassified by his very act of leaking. However, it really seems to me that Bush's indignation was genuine, which indicates he was ignorant of what Cheney was doing.

    Cheney, Rove & Libby apparantly "shopped" this story to various jounalists after Armitage inadvertantly let slip the original leak. It may not have been illegal if Cheney gave himself & the others permission - while keeping the CIA & the president in the dark.

    It appears that Libby got tangled up in the cover-up while Cheney & Rove came clean to Fitzgerald.
     
  5. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    If Armitage was the source of the leak, then why isn't he charged with a crime? How can you cover up something that has not been determined to be a crime? The way I understand it was that Libby just got mixed up on the minor details when he gave his statement. The case has been solved and no damage was done. Shouldn't the case now be dropped and closed?
     
  6. Daisy

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    It was inadvertant in his case. He may have been the first to leak, but he was by no means the only one. He did not try to get journalists to publish the leak as Libby apparently did.

    Guilty conscience, embarrassment at getting caught, stupidity.

    That's what he and his lawyers would have you believe.

    Fitzgerald believes Libby committed perjury and obstruction of justice. How many millions were spent on the investigation which need never have happened had the culprits come clean in the beginning?
     
  7. church mouse guy

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    Daisy, it was a big waste of money. Joe Wilson was inept and a mere political operative. His wife was not an agent but a civilian employee who acted to have him retained and sent on this mission even after he had switched parties.

    One mistake that Bush made--and I am going to start a thread on Bush's mistakes in a few days--is that he did not fire all Democrat holdovers in his administration. Wilson should have been fired instead of sent to Africa.

    If we give Libby the benefit of the doubt, why should the chief-of-staff for the Vice-President have remembered this minor event and these unimportant people at all?

    Daisy, it is a tempest in a pot of tea. The Bush adminsitration has been essentially honest and Bush has been personally moral. I am sure that the Democrats can find other politically appointed jobs for the Wilsons that might even pay more. I have little respect for those people who work for another party's President.
     
  8. Daisy

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    Cmg,

    Who wasted the money?

    The CIA was gravely concerned that Plame's employment with them, which WAS classified, got revealed. They asked that it be investigated. Why didn't the guilty just parties fess up then?

    Rove confirmed to Novak that her status was classified according to Novak's testimony.

    Bush declared that he would get to the bottom of it and appointed a special prosecutor.

    Plame did not have the authority to send her husband anywhere. When the mission came up, she did suggest her husband as he had ties and contacts in the region.

    Wilson hadn't switched parties. He had worked for many administrations including 43's daddy's. He was not considered to be partisan. He was a retired ambassador at the time.


    Wilson was retired at the time. The "spoils system" of civil service had been done away with a long, long time ago. To fire competant career personnel for partisan reasons is foolish.

    Libby had time to review his notes before testilying to the grand jury. It's come out in testimony of the prosecution's witnesses that this was not a minor event or unimportant people to Cheney's office.

    It has become more and more evident that the Bush administration has not been honest. Plame still works for the CIA while her husband had retired well before he went to Niger.
     
  9. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    There is no law about declassifying someone of Wilson's wife's status as far as I know.

    Wilson had switched parties and was a Democrat activist at the time. His report from Africa was false because he was inept at this sort of thing.
     
  10. Daisy

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    That's what all the fuss is about.

    Prove that he was a Democratic activist (you may be right, but do you have evidence?).

    His report from Niger was not false, but it may have been unimportant. His op-ed piece was inaccurate and that's another irony.
     
  11. church mouse guy

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    Okay, Daisy, it is nice to debate with you.

    Wilson claimed that there was no attempt to buy yellow-cake in Niger. Both the British government under the Butler Commission and the US Senate Intelligence Committee (I think that is correct) said that there was. Wilson had inaccurate information but his mission probably dealt with getting the Niger government on record with a denial and nothing else. However, Wilson's attack on Bush for the Niger government statement was founded on incorrect information. I have a link on the truth of the attempt to purchase yellow-cake if you need it, Daisy.

    I think that Wilson switched parties during the Clinton administration. He liked Bush's father, who is very intelligent, but did not like the current President and remained a Clinton Democrat. Do you need a link on that, Daisy?
     
  12. carpro

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    How could he? It wasn't. She wasn't a covert agent.

    No possibility of a crime being committed in releasing her name.
     
  13. Terry_Herrington

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    Yes, a crime was committed!
     
  14. Rufus_1611

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    "But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion. (A CIA spokesman at the time is quoted as saying Plame was "unlikely" to take further trips overseas, though.) Fitzgerald concluded he could not charge Libby for violating a 1982 law banning the outing of a covert CIA agent; apparently he lacked proof Libby was aware of her covert status when he talked about her three times with New York Times reporter Judith Miller. Fitzgerald did consider charging Libby with violating the so-called Espionage Act, which prohibits the disclosure of "national defense information," the papers show; he ended up indicting Libby for lying about when and from whom he learned about Plame." - Newsweek

    The grand jury charges:

    d.The responsibilities of certain CIA employees required that their association with the CIA be kept secret; as a result, the fact that these individuals were employed by the CIA was classified. Disclosure of the fact that such individuals were employed by the CIA had the potential to damage the national security in ways that ranged from preventing the future use of those individuals in a covert capacity, to compromising intelligence-gathering methods and operations, and endangering the safety of CIA employees and those who dealt with them. - Libby Indictment
     
  15. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy
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    But Wilson's wife was not a covert CIA agent. That is the reason that no one has been charged with a crime in connection with outing her. Libby's charges deal with his response to the investigation. Libby had nothing to do with anything--he was merely chief-of-staff, or office manager.
     
  16. The Galatian

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    Is it of any concern that Cheney and Rove went ahead with this, without even telling Bush what they had done?

    This sorta confimrms what Americans have been thinking about where the real power is in the White House.
     
  17. Daisy

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    She wasn't an agent. She was a covert opperative (not that I know the distinction - it seems semantics and the straw to which some cling desperately) and her job was classified. Read the indictment.

    He was Cheney's right-hand man.

    If you'd follow the testimony in the trial, you'd know that they were hot to discredit Wilson any way they could. Libby went to reports and told them about Plame to make Wilson's trip appear to be nepotism.

    The investigation isn't actually over yet.
     
    #17 Daisy, Feb 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2007
  18. carpro

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    Sorry . You're wrong. Fitzgerald has proven it.
     
  19. Daisy

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    Thanks. You had been away for a while. I hope all is well with you.

    He said "highly doubtful". He did show that the one document was an obvious forgery.

    They also noted that the international safeguards in place prevented any transaction from even coming close to fruition.

    Not so much inaccurate as incomplete. He did confirm that no deal took place and, again, that the one document was a bad forgery.

    Yes, please. I collect links :)

    Only if it's on hand - it's not important enough to take much trouble about, thanks.
     
  20. church mouse guy

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    OK, Daisy. I would have to dig to document Wilson's political history but the information is out there.

    However, the information about the truth that Iraq sought to buy yellow-cake is beyond dispute. Wilson never had a clue, but again he is a low-level operative and he should have exercised humility and realized that he did not have any valid information whatsoever. He could have misled the public.

    Here is what an impartial observer wrote in a non-Christian newspaper:

    On Sept. 24, 2002, British Prime Minister Tony Blair told the House of Commons that "Saddam has been trying to buy significant quantities of uranium from Africa, although we do not know whether he has been successful." On Jan. 28, 2003, in his State of the Union speech, President Bush said: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." The Butler commission concludes that both statements were "well-founded."

    Daisy, best wishes to you and yours! Here is the link to the above quotation:

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0721/p09s01-cojh.htm
     

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