Prov 22: 6-7

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    vs 6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old , he will not depart form it.

    vs 7: the rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

    A few years ago, I was talking to a pastor who had two adult children that were not walking with the Lord. Verse 6 came up, and he stated that the Book of Proverbs is not a promise ?yet simply good advise.
    On the other hand he insisted that his wife pay off her credit cards each month. So should vs 7 be construed as a commandment, or just simply good advise?

    Open for discussion
     
  2. matt wade

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    You are making an assumption that the pastor in question properly trained up his children.
     
  3. Don

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    If the first is advice, then the second is advice.

    It appears that the first is advice that he didn't take very well; whereas he places great emphasis on the second. HOWEVER - I know nothing of how he actually raised his children.
     
  4. Van

    Van
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    Very interesting thread, are the declarative sentences in scripture promises or suggestions?

    The out if you come down on the side of promise, as indicated above, is you did not "train up" your child in the way he or she should go. As a father of someone who shows no outward sign of a changed life, that is also a hard message.

    If I recall correctly the focus on the family guy indicated it should be viewed as a probability.
     
    #4 Van, Aug 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2014
  5. Yeshua1

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    Think Proverbs are wisdom from the Lord to us, but more in the kine of "generally this will happen",,,
     
  6. Salty

    Salty
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    good point - I never met the son until after he was in the Army as a 1st Lt. He is now a Major.

    About all I know is that this pastor, at the time was an associate pastor, his responsibilities included being the headmaster of the churches' Christian day school. His son and daughter both attended the school .
    I should note that the pastor, when I knew him lived up North. As Headmaster, he lived down South.
     
  7. Sapper Woody

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    I wouldn't take either of those verses as a promise. I've seen parents raise their children and some turn out good with that one "black sheep". If the verse is a promise, then every failure if a person can be laid squarely on the parent's shoulders, negating personal responsibility. Verse 7 is not a promise either, just a word of wisdom. If you borrow money, you owe that person. If you don't pay them off, they deserve to know why. "I don't have the money" is not good enough.
     
  8. Don

    Don
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    Salty, I've seen quite a few pastors that put their ministry before their sons and daughters; and I've seen those sons and daughters grow up to follow a different path because they wanted something more from their parents than "after I take care of everyone else in the church, I'll try to pay attention to you."
     
  9. Don

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    Agreed; if it is a promise, then those Word of Faith and prosperity gospel types might actually be correct....
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    Think it was Chuck Swindoll who made the comment that proverbs tells us to raise our children up in the way he should walk, not as in strictly obey and follow the Lord, but that we need to know our kids so well that we make sure that we raise them up in the best way they can ge concept to following the Lord...
     
  11. ktn4eg

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    I also believe that the bulk of the statements one finds in Proverbs (as well as in the other poetical/wisdom portions of God's Word) are to be understood as generalizations and not as iron-clad promises.

    Most all of us could come up with exceptions that, on the surface at least, seem to contradict a statement one finds in this genre. OTOH, if a person does act in accordance with these statements, normally that person will fare a lot better than if he/she blatantly disregards it.
     
  12. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    I think v 6 means if you train up a child by teaching them the gospel then this teaching will never depart from them even though they may reject it. 11 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the Holy scripture which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
     
  13. Salty

    Salty
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    then what about vs 7
     
  14. Deacon

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    Three comments:

    1) Proverbs are proverbs - common sense practical truths. The very fact that at times they seem to contradict each other shows that they are wisdom and not laws to live by (example below)

    “Answer not a fool according to his folly,
    lest you be like him yourself. ​
    Answer a fool according to his folly,
    lest he be wise in his own eyes.” ​
    (Proverbs 26:4–5, ESV)

    2) the particular phrase in Proverbs 22:6, "according to his ways" is an idiom in Hebrew, probably meaning something like 'according to the particular bend of the child'.

    So goes the International Standard Version

    “Train a child in the way appropriate for him,
    and when he becomes older, he will not turn from it.” ​
    (Proverbs 22:6)

    3) Being a pastor's kid is hard work - I know of many that rebelled - had one myself that took many a hard lesson to follow the path of righteousness - and is still learning... (but then so am I :saint:).

    Rob
     
  15. salzer mtn

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    Verse seven. Usually the rich unrighteous person will see themselves dominate over the poor and exercise a rigorous, oppressive and tyrannical manner toward them. The borrower being under a obligation to the lender is forced to be in subjection to him and may have to put up with his attitude that normally he would not.
     

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