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Proverbs 31:6-7. Specific Command or general principle?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Mar 24, 2008.

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  1. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    No, I don't tithe. If one properly studied the Word of God, one would find that only farmers and herdsmen were required to tithe under the Law. I am neither.

    but thanx for asking.

    Y'all are really grasping, aren't ya?
     
    #41 standingfirminChrist, Mar 25, 2008
  2. readmore

    readmore New Member

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    I'm not really sure you understood what I was getting at.

    Here's a hint--my inference was not explicitly stated. It was along the lines of "if you apply proper hermeneutics to some parts of Scripture, you should not accuse people who continue to apply those hermeneutics to other parts of Scripture of "dismissing" it."

    Edit: Ooh, here's a better way to put it. To understand that Proverbs are "proverbs" is no more "dismissing" them than to put items of the Mosaic Law into their proper historical perspective.
     
    #42 readmore, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
  3. JerryL

    JerryL New Member

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    I see SFIC is still posting on this thread and still dodging the OP and other questions asked about these 2 verses. Typical.
     
    #43 JerryL, Mar 25, 2008
  4. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    I see JerryL is accusing me of not addressing the OP even though I addressed it in post #4. Typical.
     
    #44 standingfirminChrist, Mar 25, 2008
  5. JerryL

    JerryL New Member

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    I did the search and see no where you have answered anything about those 2 verses.
    I don't see an answer there. If it is literal as you say, you are breaking a commandment. God said give strong drink and wine to the perishing and the poor. Do you do it? There is a promise as a result of an action in those.
     
    #45 JerryL, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
  6. JerryL

    JerryL New Member

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    The old SFIC duck and dodge. Help him out Linda. I see you are logged on.
     
    #46 JerryL, Mar 25, 2008
  7. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    You did NOT address it is post number 4.
    That is a total faslehood.

    Please do deal with it or leave the thread alone.
    It is a dichotomy to you I can see since it seemingly contradicts your two hot buttons of late,
    Well, no seemingly about it.
    It DOEScontractict your two hot buttons.
     
    #47 Dale-c, Mar 25, 2008
  8. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    If you can't see the answer in this post, you are blinder than SFIC
     
    #48 Linda64, Mar 25, 2008
  9. JerryL

    JerryL New Member

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    It's ok, the "duck and dodge" is posted for all to see. You can't obey that commandment and be against alcohol like you two are. It's ok. That commandment is God's word, don't obey it if you wish. He will forgive you......I think.
     
    #49 JerryL, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2008
  10. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    You must be joking! Nowhere in that post does he deal with the specific verse at all! He merely says that there are some verses that are promises and others are not.
    Ok, fine.
    Now what makes one verse a promise and the other NOT a promise and how does that apply to this particular verse?
     
    #50 Dale-c, Mar 25, 2008
  11. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Jerry, it is a catch 22.
    IF they are to be consistent in their "all proverbs are promises/commands" stance then they would have to admit this verse gives validity to the proper use of alcohol at times. (of course in the previous verse it warns against the improper use as well) So to do that would be to deny their radical no alcohol anytime for any reason stance.

    So they must dodge.
     
    #51 Dale-c, Mar 25, 2008
  12. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    wait, I correct myself, he does say in the second part that the ones that declare something will or will not happen are promises.

    Ok, fine.
    Let's test that criteria against this verse and see what we come up with:

    For the record, I see no promise that drinking will always make one forget their poverty,
    However, in the first verse (well, verse 6) it says "Give:" not maybe give. Not Give if you want to . Not ....well you get my point.

    so again, please explain this verse.
     
    #52 Dale-c, Mar 25, 2008
  13. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Give strong drink to him that is ready to perish.

    What child of God is ready to perish? Our faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross assures us that we will never perish.

    So giving strong drink to the child of God is not commanded in that verse.

    To the unsaved? What drink is stronger than the water of Life that comes from Christ alone?

    Give the dying unsaved Christ and you have fulfilled the command in Proverbs 31.

    *edited to add:

    Alcohol bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.
    The water of life takes the sting of death from a person.

    Which is more powerful?
     
    #53 standingfirminChrist, Mar 25, 2008
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2008
  14. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    First of all, thank for dealing with hte actual verse. Though I do not agree with the conclusions, thanks for dealing with it.

    Now, why is the child of God not mentioned?
    Do not Christians still die?
    They will have eternal life but we are still subject to physical death. You do believe that right?
    I did meet a guy that thought he would never die physically.

    It does not say "give them strong drink unless they are Children of God"
    It says give them strong drinkl"
    also, it mentions poverty,
    Have you ever met a Christian who was poor?
    I have.
     
    #54 Dale-c, Mar 25, 2008
  15. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    As a general rule I would agree with you on this.
    Christ is the answer to a dying persons problems or a poor person etc ultimately.
    But, how do you explain that Kings are NOT supposed to take wine or stong drink?
    If it is talking about the strong drink of the water of life, then why should not kings have the water of life?
    Read it all in context....it is not for kings to drink strong drink....give it to those who are about to perish.
     
    #55 Dale-c, Mar 25, 2008
  16. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    One of the best eisegetical demonstrations I have ever seen on Baptistboard... :applause: :applause:
     
    #56 tinytim, Mar 25, 2008
  17. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    ] that is predictable.

    Jesus said 'The child is not dead. She is only sleeping.

    The child of God does not feel the sting of death.

    Jesus called it 'sleeping.' The Disciples did not understand. They only understood death. Until Jesus explained what they call death has no power when He speaks. Lazarus was 'only sleeping.'

    Sure it does. You just reject it. Give strong drink to him that is ready to perish. As I pointed out, the child of God will never perish. Unless you don't believe the promise in John 3:16?

    There is none who is poor who is rich in Christ.
     
    #57 standingfirminChrist, Mar 25, 2008
  18. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

    Christians are promised in John 3:16 that they will not perish but have everlasting life. Proverbs 31:6 states to "Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish. Therefore, since a Christian is promised that he/she will not perish, the command is to the unsaved/lost, who are ready to perish (without Christ)
     
    #58 Linda64, Mar 25, 2008
  19. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    You call it eisegetical. I showed Christ into the OT Scripture... just as He said He was there.

    John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

    no eisegesis there at all tim.
     
    #59 standingfirminChrist, Mar 25, 2008
  20. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    The verse does not deal with that, and you know it.
    You have to include stuff into the verse to make it mean what you want it too...

    You are adding to the word of God..

    Go read the last book of the Bible, and see what waits for people who does what you just did...

    A very dangerous practice.

    Perish means to die...

    Strong drink here is not talking about the water of life...

    Your hermeneutics are horrendous...
    It is useless debating you, you twist the scripture so out of context, it comes around to bite you , and you don't even know you are bitten.

    I am done with this one.. (unless I decide to come back)
     
    #60 tinytim, Mar 25, 2008
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