Psalm 100

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, May 11, 2003.

  1. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Psalms 100:1  ¶&lt;&lt;A Psalm of praise.&gt;&gt; Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.
    2  Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing.
    3   Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
    4  Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
    5  For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

    [emphasis mine on vs. 3] wanted you guys to consider it [​IMG] and thought it best to provide context [​IMG]

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas Eaton
    [​IMG]
     
  2. William C

    William C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a great verse Dallas. I'm not quite sure what it is about that verse you want us to consider for debate?
     
  3. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought the scripture was self-evident as to its argument.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  4. William C

    William C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm obviously not reading it with a Calvinistic bias, so your going to have to point it out to me. :confused: :cool:
     
  5. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's easy, Bill. Calvinists think that all non-Calvinists must believe that we made ourselves, since Arminians are all about how powerful and cool man is. This passage says that God made us, so we Arminians must be wrong.
     
  6. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK, it is deeper than that Scott, I think the two of you know what this scripture says. Tell me something...are all people children of God or are only the saved his children?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  7. William C

    William C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, Dallas we know what the scripture says. As Scott pointed out, it says "God made us."

    Does anyone on this board dispute that God is the creator of the saved and the lost?

    I still honestly don't know where you are going with this. Sorry, I'm trying. :confused:
     
  8. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    0
    The psalm says nothing about children:

    Psalms 100:1 ¶&lt;&lt;A Psalm of praise.&gt;&gt; Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.
    2 Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing.
    3 Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
    4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.
    5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

    The Israelites were his people, and the sheep of his pasture. My guess is that is the antecedent of "we" and "us."
     
  9. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK. you are correct on that. So then, are all people His Sheep?

    Doesn't this passage bring up thoughts of John 10 in your mind?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  10. William C

    William C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    At the time the Psalm was written most Israelites would have thought that the sheep were Jews. But we later see that Israel is not Israel, but Israel are those who are the children of the promise. This means that the sheep are those who enter covenant through the means of faith, not through being born to Abraham or by keeping the works of the law. So the sheep are those who believe.

    I know where you are going. You'll quote John 10 where Jesus says to the Pharisees, "you don't believe because you are not my sheep." But you fail to understand the context of this verse. Jesus has just explained that there are two groups of sheep that must be brought in. The first group are the Jewish believers, these are Jews who were not hardened, also refered to as the remnant in Romans. The second group was the Gentiles.

    Those in Israel who were not of the Remnant were hardened and unable to believe as John 12:37-41 clearly explains in detail, therefore they were not of the first group of sheep who were being granted entrance into covenant at that time. Later we see that many of these same people very well could have come to believe in Acts 2 and 3. Hardened Israel could not have been his sheep at the time he was still on earth, but that doesn't mean that once their hardening came to an end that they might not believe at a later time.
     
  11. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
    I got it!

    God didn't choose Israel, He just pretended to choose Israel. But what He was really doing is choosing everybody who would choose Him because He didn't really just choose Israel or anybody else in particular.

    Oh yea, I forgot, He hardened some of them because He didn't want them to choose Him but yet He elected some of the others whom He didn't harden to show the rest of them how not to be hardened and to choose Him. :D
     
  12. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, he really did choose Israel. The Gentiles are said to be "grafted on" to the branch (Romans 10-11). However, we both know that not all of the Israelites were children of God - otherwise, we'd have such unsavory characters as Ahab and Jezebel included in the mix. The question is this: How could he choose Israel, yet not Israel were children of God?

    But, your last "question" is interesting. Is it possible that God could have chosen those who would choose Him? If he truly knows everything outside of time, would this have been too hard for God? God chose the nation of Israel not because of anything they had done; indeed, it was done even before they were even a nation! Later, God chose to establish a church made up of anyone who would follow Him. This didn't negate his first choosing, although the details and nitty-gritty of all this should be left for another post, or indeed, several books!


    Not in my doctrine - I guess that's Bill's.
     
  13. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    The problem is that if God chose any based upon the foreknowledge that they would choose him then we make Grace a 'merited' favor, extended only to those who God knows will 'choose' correctly.

    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  14. William C

    William C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    We are saved by Grace THROUGH FAITH.

    If you want to call faith a merit, fine, but Grace aint coming without it.
     
  15. William C

    William C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    1. He hardened Israel. That is a fact. Do you deny it?

    2. From Israel he reserved a remnant. That too is a fact. Do you deny that?

    3. Of that remnant he chose 12 to be apostles and carry the gospel to the world. That is a fact. Do you deny it?

    4. I never said anything about God not wanting Israel to choose Him. That is your own straw man. God longed to gather Israel under his wings of salvation (Matt. 23:37). And even in their being hardened he desired that it would result in their being provoked to envy so that they too might be saved (Romans 11).
     
  16. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    No individual would repent, except that they first believe the report of the Gospel. Faith does not come prior to Grace for there is hardly to be found a person who has not heard of Christ and when question will not say they believe in him, but in practice will not follow him. To justify themselves then they start quoting the Bill of Rights (usually misquote) never mind the small fact that this 'Bill of Rights' is not recorded in Scripture and on that day of Judgement is not going to do a thing to cause God to reconsider their condemnation.

    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  17. William C

    William C
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    1,562
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm sorry Dallas, maybe my brain is just not working today, but I'm not following your point. I never quoted the Bill of Rights as a defense for my views. Did someone else?
     
  18. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    I love to rabbit hunt Bro. Bill, I just wish we had some good beagle hounds cause the ones we seem to have unloaded only want to hunt deer. I think you know very well what my point is but that you just do not want to 'see' my point because then you would have to address it.

    Sometimes the hound will run the rabbit too fast and he will go into a hole. We will run this one slowly enough that he will circle back to us; I don't want to have to crawl into a thicket just to find in the middle of it a hole the o' rabbit has dived into.

    Now, my point in my last post was not to say that you directly made reference to the Bill of Rights in your argument, nor did anyone else. But that it is the influence of such documents that men hold dear that first they imagine the Word of God to conform to those which are written by and among men and that to govern civil government.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  19. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    0
    The point can also be argued that Calvinists make reference to a Hellenistic view of God. Even though it is not a directly made referece, it is the influence of such philosophers that men hold dear that first they imagine the Word of God to conform to those which are written by and among men who believed in a Greek form of sovereignty.
     
  20. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    It brings up thoughts of Psalm 50:10. "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills."

    Seems like all that exists is His, whether it be sheep, beasts, cattle, why would humanity be any different?
     

Share This Page

Loading...