Psalms 51:5

David was confessing his own sin and sinfulness, not another's. Concentrate on this.

Absolutely (but we don't get angry and yell like you do )

This is where you are wrong and not thinking. David is referring to his sin and his sinfulness. We call that his own depravity--his own sinful condition. I am truly sorry that you have never presented yourself to the Lord and admitted that you are a sinner, deserving only of his wrath. You have never humbled yourself before God as David was doing, admitting his sinfulness from his birth onward--that their was never a time in his life that he was not sinful. David was not a proud man; but very humble. He expresses that humility here, as he pours out his heart to God, admits his sinful heart, even from his birth onward. But you would be too proud ever to do that!

The point is David's sinful condition; his sinfulness; his depravity before God. It is a psalm of repentance, but you don't seem to understand this.

You just don't get it do you. He is speaking of his own depravity, his own sinfulness, not Adam's original sin.

His sinfulness reaches right down to his birth. He is a sinner from birth, and that is what he is stating. He admits his depravity, his complete and utter helpless sinful state. There is nothing he can do about it for he was born that way. Adam plunged the human race into a sinful condition, put the world (including man) under a curse. That curse will not be removed until the rapture occurs. Until then man is stuck with an inherited sin nature. Man must deal with the consequences of Adam's sin.

David doesn't mention his mother as being sinful. You have it wrong.
What I do see is HP blaming God.

 

You played this card before HP. It doesn't work.
David was not repenting in order to get saved was he?
He was already saved.
When we sin, as believers, we like David must come to the Lord in humility and repent of our sin. There is the teaching of 1John 1:9 and Psalm 66:18. Have you never come in great humility and sorrow for your sin before the Lord for sins that you have committed since you have been saved or do you live a life perfect in sinless perfection, not having sinned since salvation?

 

This is a first. The man that God calls "a man after God's own heart," HP calls not saved or unregenerate. That's a good one.

Note:
Psalms 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
--He prays for JOY to be restored; not his salvation to be restored.

 

THE SERVANT He was still the servant of God. He had not lost his salvation. The man that was "a man after God's own heart" never lost his salvation. To think that he did is absurd.

 

11Do not cast me away from Your presence
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
12Restore to me the joy of Your salvation
And sustain me with a willing spirit.

I always find it interesting that David with all his knowledge of God would declare such an idea that he could be cast away and have the Holy Spirit taken from him, why would he say such a thing if it were not possible?

The passages in Psalm 51 certainly speak of repentance, a contrite heart, but it also speaks about being restored to God through repentance.

Yes there is this idea of hyperbole, which can easily be seen in the wording, yet the truth still is revealed through the poetic utterances of a man who turned away from God who is now seeking Him again in a change of mind and obviously a change of actions.

When your read the psalm it gives no indication of original sin, David does not blame anyone for his sins, he blames himself, of course if he was refering to original sin then I guess he would be able to blame his mother or his father or even God for the sins he has committed. Yet none of that is there, unless of course you are trying to put it there, if that is the case then I can come up with many doctrines from just this one psalm.

Like God breaks the bones of those who transgress Him, but I understand this to only be an expression of the disciple that God brings to those who belong to Him that go wayward.

Do a word study on each of the words in verses 1-5, it will help in understanding the word sin in the context, there are two different Hebrew words being used.

The idea that david was brought forth in iniquity has to do with the pain of child birth that his mother dealt with, just as he was dealing with the pain of the his sin. I know some will scoff at this idea, only because they have not looked at the wordsin the Hebrew and looked at other examples of the words in other parts of scripture. I would be more than happy to elaborate on this tomorrow.

 

The only reason you think this way is because you don't believe in the eternal security of the believer (OSAS). You know very well that I do. In the future do not allow your theology to cloud your judgment. Any time someone questions you about repentance do not assume they are questioning you about salvation. That is not the case. As Baptists we believe in eternal security. You know that. You understand that. I will therefore take your complaint as a false allegation; particularly this one:

 

Here's where context serves us well. What do the circumstances surrounding David's birth have to do with anything in the context? David is talking about his heartache over his sin with Bathsheba and having her husband Uriah killed. He is taking full responsibility. In the prior verse he confesses, "against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest." So in the next verse he is going to talk about what his parents did? That doesn't make any sense. What does make sense is David saying I am a sinner by nature. David is here exalting God and abasing himself.

Secondly, when in scripture do you ever see David disparaging his parents? When do you see any scripture writers do this?

David affirms the same truth taught by Paul, that man is a fallen sinful creature by nature.

 

Affirming original sin is not blaming someone else for our sins. I fully believe we all fell in Adam in the garden of eden, but I also believe that God holds me responsible for my personal sins against His commandments and He will chasten me in time when I sin.

Also, having salvation and having the joy of your salvation are two different things. One who is heartbroken over sin still has salvation, but they need to be restored to the joy of it. Peter, when he denied Christ, wept bitterly. Later on we see him rejoicing in hope of the glory of God.

 

Let me ask you a question - how many times a day do you sin that you could have avoided it rather easily? When I think about that question is really convicts my heart. How many times a day do I do things like turn on a television program, or look at something over the internet, or do something else that brings about sinful thoughts in my mind? Oh how easily I could have avoided so many sins in my life. I'm a firm believer in original sin, but I also feel heavily convicted over my personal sins. Paul affirms the doctrine in Romans 5, then in chapter 6 exhorts people to live godly and avoid sin. Then in chapter 7 he says he is a wretched sinner. Paul certainly didn't believe that original sin is blaming Adam. He certainly didn't believe that because we are sinners by nature that sinning is simply the playing out of consequences necessitated by our nature.

 

Unless you repent of each and every sin you commit each day you cannot have a right relationship with God: every bad thought, every omission of things you ought to have done and didn't do, every lie (form of deceit in any way), etc. Repentance is necessary.

However if you don't believe in OSAS, then if you have not repented of any of these sins, perhaps just one that you have forgotten about, then you are doomed forever to hell. Correct?

I am thankful that my salvation is secure in the hand of Jesus; my sins: past, present and future are under the blood, forever forgiven by the Lord Jesus Christ, and that I don't have that threat hanging over me.

The sin nature inherited from Adam points in the direction of sin. We are sheep gone astray the Bible says. We are like thieves; but the nature of the criminal is not to search out the policeman. Our nature is that of the criminal. It is not neutral. It is not one that naturally seeks after God.

Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

What a terrible nature is described here. The last part of verse 11 makes it clear: "There is none that seeks after God. No criminal seeks out the police.
The natural man does not do good. He cannot. He is not righteous. There is no such thing as an innocent person, not even at birth. He is born a sinner. As an Ethiopian is born black; as a leopard is born with spots; so a man is born with a sin nature and cannot do good.

 

I am not a Calvinist. The true Calvinist says that he is not able to respond to God; he is dead (i.e. lifeless [wrong definition] ); and that before he can be saved he has to be first regenerated so that God can give him the faith to be saved. I don't believe that.

I believe that God has sent the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin, of judgment, of things to come. "Of sin because they believe not on me." When the gospel message is presented, and the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, the sinner certainly is able to respond to God's message of salvation.

Yet at the same time salvation is all of God.