Psalms 51:5

HP: The passage you quote here applies to moral agents alone, i.e., those capable of sinning. We correct a child so as to train them up in such a way that WHEN they reach the age of accountability and stand morally accountable they might be accustomed to doing good, and that by habit hopefully.

HP: Which proves only that all men have a proclivity to sin. I have raised several children of my own. I have found that some take far more teaching than others. Some are compliant and loving and others are far more selfish. Some seem to go from an obedient childhood straight into a loving relationship with God as teens and adults, while others seemingly have to try every bit of sinister bait the enemy of their souls places in their pathway. (Such was I as a young adult, sorry to say and may God continue to have mercy upon me) I could go into far more graphic illustration and examples but wisdom tells me it is best to refrain in this setting.

Hallelujah! I have found Him
Whom my soul so long has craved!
Jesus satisfies my longings
Thru His blood I now am saved!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utaEWRX15Eg

( To all my dear Church of Christ fellow believers, please forgive me for this link:smilewinkgrin: )

 

HP: Scripture clearly teaches an age of accountability. The fact that it presents children innocent and of such is the kingdom of heaven proves beyond a shadow of a doubt their innocence. The Jews as well as all reasonable men have always felt the same way, holding to an age of accountability. God has granted men with a thing called wisdom, intelligence and reason that testifies clearly that such an age exists. Our law are based on justice and reason and clearly take into account such an age. The only ones that would even consider denying such a self evident truth are Calvinistic theologians, trying in vain to garner support for the failed notion of original sin. The dogma makes a mockery out of reason and paints a horrible blight on the Holy and Just character of God. It is complete and utter absurdity to disallow the existence of such an age.

Go ahead RAdam, call it whatever you so desire, but deny that it exists and you remain absurd in the light of both Scripture and reasonable men, both believers and non-believers alike. Two plus two equals four and it is not taught in Scripture either. It makes as much sense to deny that as it does to deny the existence of an age of accountability.

What was that you commented on concerning foolishness being sin? In the case of denying an age of accountability being denied by men classifying themselves as theologians, I may be inclined to agree with you.

 

HP: Have you been talking to my wife or doctor lately? :laugh:

Sure beats the heretic and blasphemy notions. "Sorry shape" almost makes me think you are starting to warm up a bit. Thank you!!:thumbs:

 

Just call me the eternal optimist. :smilewinkgrin:

 

HP: When God created a human being with creative powers, i.e. the ability to be ‘the cause’ of its formed intents, there is a mystery that surrounds any such creation granted such freedom. Of a truth, there is a mystery of iniquity. We can say it was this or that that influences one to sin, but that does not answer the 'why.' Can you even start to think outside of the realm of necessity? Are you even able to conceive of a free moral agen? If not punishments and rewards are an absolute cruel or absurd joke. If man is bound to necessity and is going to be punished for failure to do something even God cannot do, i.e., act in opposition to necessity, you might as well start punishing rocks for failure to go to work.

Isn’t it funny that at every turn we apply logic to man concerning freedom and just punishments or rewards, but the we seem to lose all sense of logic and what morality entails when it comes to sin. Why if I was that lazy bum on the couch, I would point directly at the theological system of necessity you seem bent on espousing, and tell you that I cannot do anything other than what I am doing, i.e. being a couch potato. Listen real carefully. THE MAN REFUSING TO WORK HAS CHOSEN BY HIS OWN FREE WILL NOT TO WORK JUST AS A SINNER COOSES NOT TBEY GOD. All free moral agents have been granted creative powers by God that they can use for selfishness or benevolence. We do not live in a world of necessity, neither to sin nor to be a coach potato. When you tell me why that man has decided to be a coach potato I will tell you why men have sinned.

Let me tell you Ann, man sounds just as silly to God when we ask ‘why one sins’ as I would by asking why that man is a coach potato in America. There is no reason why one ‘has’ to be a coach potato, and neither is there any reason why one has to sin. If one ‘had to be a coach potato and in reality had no choice in the matter, we would pity such a one, but who in their right mind would blame one that of necessity could not have chosen differently????

There is no answer as to the ‘why’ men sin Ann, but we do know that no man was born in a necessitated state of sin. Sin is only sin as it applies to the formed intents of free moral agents, agents that could do something other than what they do under the very same set of circumstances without regard to punishments or rewards. The thought of punishing one for any necessitated state is nothing short of wicked absurd. We need to start thinking right about morals and religion again.

 

On the issue of men that 'might' not have sinned, I would say that Enoch and Elijah are indeed reasonable suspects. Scripture is clear, none in our dispensation have lived such a life without sin.

 

HP: No, God does not sin and He does not lie. There is absolutely nothing in the statement “For all have sinned and came short of the glory of God” that would not allow for some exceptions. How many times have I heard others mention that the word ‘all’ can often be referring to 'all in a subset of individuals?’ The passage you quote is from the NT and clearly can be understood as to say all in our dispensation.

I cannot tell you that Enoch and Elijah did not sin, but Scriptures states that death passed upon ‘all men’ and Enoch and Elijah were men you know, and they, according to Scripture, did not see death.

So rather than to ask you if God is a liar, let me ask you, do you believe Scripture? Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated THAT HE SHOULD NOT SEE DEATH; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 

We have been around a few times on that passage. I want to know something DHK. Who are the righteous spoken of in that Psalm? Did David desire for God to smash the teeth of infants? Would that not be a rather hard thing to do? When was the last time you saw the righteous rejoicing at the destruction of infants? Do you think protesters outside of abortion clinics are there to rejoice over the death and destruction of the innocent lives butchered at the hands of an abortionist's knife? You are exhibiting the moral savvy of a Neanderthal if you believe for a minute David would rejoice at seeing the teeth of innocent babies smashed in their mouths, if that was even possible. Your theology is blinding your ability to discern the truth DHK, and it is beyond absurdity on this point.

 

HP: I will tell you once again with a Scriptural response: ” because all have sinned.”

HP: Neither can a blind man see Ann. I gave you the plain Word of God, you quoted it and then said in essence you do not believe it. In not believing you have accepted a lie.

 

HP: All is vanity as well, right? Wrong. The confused individual that wrote that book did not have a lot of things correct. I can tell you that it certainly was not God’s observation, for God did see righteousness exhibited on the earth in more than one man. One in specific God called perfect and upright, a man that feared God and eskewed evil.