Psuedo-Catholic Protestant Denominations

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by 3AngelsMom, Mar 14, 2003.

  1. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom
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    Fellow Protestants

    I was told by a Catholic friend of mine, that most mainline denominational churches have doctrines that are the same as the Catholic Church.

    I would like to discuss this.

    I am a Seventh Day Adventist (duh)

    The only things that this person could bring up that they thought we had in common was:

    the Trinity
    Christology
    The NT Canon

    NOW, I don't agree with the Catholic version of the Trinity, and don't really agree with any version of it for that matter, so that one is bunk.

    The Christology, I could never get this person to explain for me, and they acted like I was inciting a riot or something for even asking.

    Anyone here know what that means? Could you explain? (Neal)

    And the NT Canon, is just really irrelivant, because even if we are missing some texts or something crazy like that, we have enought to get the general idea, in the 4 Gospels alone! So that is REALLY not something that can 'tie us' together with the CC.

    So what about YOUR church?

    Can you think of anything that YOUR church does, or believes that has it's roots in Catholicism?

    Like Lent, or infant baptism, or prayers for the dead, or the immortality of the soul, etc.

    *note- this isn't a Sabbath thread*

    God Bless
     
  2. Chemnitz

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    Because of my own innate laziness and the shear volume of material required to answer your questions, I am just going to point you to a link that should point out similarities and differences between the Lutheran church and the rcc.

    The Book of Concord online

    But here is a short list of similarities

    Trinity,
    The three ecumenical creeds
    Liturgical Calendar- ours is similar to rcc but with modifications.
    Vestments
    Real Presence- differ on manner
    The link above is much better and can explain more than i can here.

    What about Christology do you not understand?
     
  3. 3AngelsMom

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    Chemnitz,

    EVERYTHING!!

    I don't know what it means! Just a simple definition would suffice. I am pretty easy to teach, and think logically, so just explain it briefly.

    That's all I want to know. I'm sure once someone tells me what it is, I will be able to discuss the ins and outs of it, but as of now, I have no idea what it even means.

    God Bless
     
  4. AITB

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    You don't believe in the Trinity?

    What about the Catholic version of the Trinity do you disagree with? Is the Catholic version much different from the Protestant version?

    Helen/AITB
     
  5. AITB

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  6. 3AngelsMom

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    Helen,

    Is this the same Helen? Or are you another Helen?

    I don't agree with the triniune god of the Catholic Trinity for several reasons.

    We could go into it, but I am not going to try to convince anyone of what I have found. So it would be a pretty short discussion.

    So unless you REALLY want to know, I'd rather not get into it here.

    Thanks for the links.

    So Christology is the study of the doctrines that people believe about Jesus.

    So I guess my question is this:

    What is it about the doctrines of the Catholic Church about Jesus, that agree with the doctrines of Protestantism, and specifically which ones are unique to the CC, or are not based in Scripture.

    God Bless
     
  7. AITB

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    Hi 3AM [​IMG]

    I'm a different one from the Helen whose username here is Helen, who is a moderator.

    I don't mind if you don't convince me. I mean, seriously, when did you ever convince anyone here to change their minds on anything anyway? I'm curious, that's all, because Bible-believing Christians usually regard the doctrine of the Trinity as very foundational to all they believe. They tend to use belief in the Trinity as a key indicator of whether a group is Christian or a cult. In other words, if you don't believe in the Trinity you're a heretic and the group that you belong to is a cult.

    I really really do - that's why I asked! [​IMG]

    I do because as I just attempted to explain, it's a very significant doctrine as far as most Bible-believing Christians are concerned.

    Feel free to PM or e-mail me if you'd rather not post your reasons here.

    You're welcome! [​IMG]

    Yep - it's a big word but that's all it means.

    I don't know enough about Catholic doctrine to answer that with assurance.

    I thought the doctrines about Jesus [believed by Bible-believing Catholics] were pretty much the same as [Bible-believing] Protestant doctrines about Jesus.

    Helen/AITB

    [ March 15, 2003, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]
     
  8. Jude

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    As far as I understand it, there is no-difference between the 'Catholic' (Roman) understanding of the Trinity and the Orthodox, Protestant, or Anglican. The above-comment puzzles me. Is this what Seventh Day Adventists teach? If so, they may indeed be beyond the 'bounds' of orthodoxy.
     
  9. AITB

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  10. BobRyan

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    In the Seventh-day Adventist document "27 Fundamental Beliefs" the affirmation of the Trinity in the form of the Triune God as in "God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit" - fully God - co-equal, co-eternal, having life "underived" - the "Three great persons of the Godhead" - is affirmed.

    Bob
     
  11. BobRyan

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    Christology has to do with "the study of Christ".

    The Virgin birth, His sinnless life, His atoning death for the sins of the world, His bodily resurrection, His existence as the God-man fully God and fully man - though emptying himself as described in Philipians 2.

    Adventists affirm these points of the life of Christ.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. AITB

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    Hi Bob [​IMG]

    Are you aware of significant differences between the SDA doctrine of the Trinity and the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Trinity?

    Helen/AITB
     
  13. BobRyan

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    Helen,

    I want to say "no" I don't know the difference.

    Here is the Catholic commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II.

    That is what we get from the 27 FB as well.

    Seems pretty close.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. AITB

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    Thanks, Bob [​IMG]

    I hope 3AM will elaborate on what she finds problematic in the Catholic doctrine of the Trinity and will also outline her own beliefs or lack thereof regarding the Trinity. When she has time, of course [​IMG]

    Helen
     
  15. neal4christ

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    Hey 3AM,

    Yes, Christology is the doctrines about Christ. As far as I know, Catholics believe that Christ is the Son of God who is 100% God and 100% man, with neither being comingled. I may be mistaken, but I believe that this is what is taught. If I get some time, I will check out my Catechism that I have and see. I don't know why the person would not explain it to you, that doesn't make sense. :confused:

    Neal
     
  16. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom
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    Hey 3AM,

    Yes, Christology is the doctrines about Christ. As far as I know, Catholics believe that Christ is the Son of God who is 100% God and 100% man, with neither being comingled. I may be mistaken, but I believe that this is what is taught. If I get some time, I will check out my Catechism that I have and see. I don't know why the person would not explain it to you, that doesn't make sense. :confused:

    Neal
    </font>[/QUOTE]Very immature.

    That's all I could get from it. There is no other reason why. I simply asked, repeatedly in the same way, I might add, WHAT it is in the CC's Christology doctrines that are the same as the SDA's doctrines.

    They flew off the handle.

    And wouldn't talk to me anymore.

    Thanks for the insight.

    God Bless
     
  17. 3AngelsMom

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    The first link is the official site. The second one is garbage. It has lies on it.

    It said that we think we are the ONE TRUE Church on earth. I have NEVER read or heard any SDA say this, and on the contrary we believe that the Church is made up of God's people in every denomination.

    God Bless
     
  18. AITB

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    Hi 3AM,

    Thanks for your response but I'd still like to know what you disagree with in the Catholic doctrine of the Trinity. Do you believe in the Trinity or not?

    Helen/AITB
     
  19. 3AngelsMom

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    That's very true. Sad, but true. It amazes me at how closed minded, and hard hearted people can be to the Word of God.
    Interestingly enough, that you said 'bible believing' and yet the word 'trinity' cannot be found anywhere in the Bible. Interesting still that it is such an obscure doctrine that it takes quite a twist to prove it.
    Again, who authorized them to make this rule? You do realize that this very idea, that if you don't agree with 'their' docrtrines you are a cult, is actually very Catholic. :rolleyes:
    It takes a truly humble person to admit that, and not answer! [​IMG] I appreciate your honesty.
    Who are the Bible Believing Catholics? Is that another rite? Seriously. Many of the doctrines that are in the Catechism cannot be found in scripture, and are based on 'her own authority'. Of course they think that God gave them the authority to author doctrines that are sometimes even contrary to scripture, but most of the time just extrabiblical.

    I don't agree with the Catholic trinity because it is unscriptural. It is similar to paganism, and this form of trinitarianism is NOT what the SDA church teaches. They may 'appear' to be the same, but they are not. The Catholic trinity has a different wording, and it makes it different. They also have the addition of Mary to the line up not only in the role of coadvocate and coredemptrix, but as the Queen of heaven, and the spouse of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They claim that IN HER the trinity is entempled, and IN HER the fulness of the Godhead was bodily brought forth.

    TO ME, it is THAT which is heretical.

    Call me crazy, but putting ANY human in a position of authority over man in respect to his Salvation, and forgiveness of sins, is not only extrabiblical, but antichrist, and denys the Father and the Son.

    I'll tell you what I do believe, and you just read it over, and see if you agree. It is not what the Nicene Creed teaches, nor what the Catechism teaches about the Godhead, and the Heavenly 'government', so to speak.

    I believe that there is ONE God. Jehovah. The Father. The Almighty God. I believe that The Word of God was made flesh and dwelt among men. He is the only begotten Son of God, in whom ALL the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwells. He is the mediator between God and men.

    Allow me to show you something.

    The Trinity was not always excepted by the SDA Church. As a matter of fact NONE of the Pioneers who FOUNDED the SDA Church were trinitarian.

    This is from one of the first issues of the SDA periodical "Signs of the Times"...

    "[I believe] that there is one God, a personal, spiritual Being, the Creator of all things, omnipotent, omniscient, and eternal; infinite in wisdom, holiness, justice, goodness, truth, and mercy; unchangeable, and everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit. Psalm 139:7.
    That there is one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Eternal Father, the One by whom God created all things, and by whom they do consist...."- (Signs of the Times, June 4, 1874)

    NOW. Here is what is in Fundamental Belief #2:

    "There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation."

    This statement of faith didn't change until the 1930's. And more interestingly, the doctrine of the trinity was NOT officially accepted as a fundamental belief of the church until 1980! It took over 100 years to break the church down to finally officially accept orthodox trinitarianism.

    As you can see by the response by BobRyan, it is fairly important to most SDA's to remain in the realm of 'orthodox' Christianity.

    I really don't care if what I believe places me in favor with men or not. :rolleyes:

    I have been studying this for a while now, and disagree with the trinity.

    I still DO see a difference between the 'Orthodox' Protestant version of the Trinity and the Catholic trinity, and yet more difference in the SDA version.

    Hopefully, as demonstrated above.

    Doesn't that strike you as odd, that there are so many different versions of something that isn't even in the Bible?

    I hope that answered your questions.

    God Bless
     
  20. 3AngelsMom

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    Patience woman!!! [​IMG]

    It took me a while to respond!

    God Bless
     

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