Featured Pub Night Fellowship

With all due respect, I think Icono had some good points and gave supporting scripture. Wouldn't you find something admiss that children of God would rather hang with the lost and reject other fellow Christians? I hear complaining about Christian fellowships, well, if there is something you don't like about them then try to make them better rather than complain to the world about them. No?

 

Water - that's funny. I guess I could have just got a cup of water from the kitchen sink. Wouldn't have been near as cold as those wine coolers, though.

Oh, I didn't clarify something in my last post. When I said I was glad there weren't more wine coolers because I would have gone back for more, it wouldn't have been to get drunk. They tasted so good that I could have drank a dozen of them. Then I would have been smashed.

Seagram's "Jamaican Me Crazy"
I still haven't forgotten because it's so catchy. Boy howdy were they good.

But I had no problem saying no to the beer. Taste doesn't appeal to me, and I'm not out to get drunk. I recognized after the two drinks I had, that was more than enough.

Easy there. I think you're drooling, lol

And I would guess that if you're having only a drink or two, even somewhat regularly, it doesn't have a grip on you. And a regular beer or two doesn't get somebody buzzed; not near the same effect as two drinks slammed after not drinking for a while.


I say you keep on keepin' on. The Body of Christ is not confined to a brick building full of stuffed shirts. Let them say what they want. You have a clear conscience in the matter before the Lord, and His is the only opinion that really counts.

 

While I've eaten in a bar (NO alcohol consumption), I've always thought about the message I was sending to non-Christians about what a Christian is. I'm reminded of a story I was told about a man sitting on a stool at the bar, with a cigarette in one hand and a drink in the other, talking to a woman next to him and telling her about being a Christian. I can't help but wonder if she believed that to be true. It seems that non-Christians have a lot higher standard by which they expect Christians to live than we do ourselves.

I had a young man tell me one time, "I'm a Christian, too." Then in the next sentence he used the "gd" phrase and the "f" word. Yeah, I really believed he was a Christian.

What kind of message are we giving to the world by our words and our lives? Do they hear a message of God's love and grace? Do they see and hear the love of God in our words and lives? Or are they thinking, "This person is a Christian? If he is, then so am I, because I live a better Christian life than he does."

 

That reminds me, explicitly, of a situation like that in the pool hall I used to go into. A guy sees me smoking a cigarette, and I'm talking about Christ to the owner of the establishment.

He says something like "You're a Christian? I though Christians don't smoke?"
I asked him what he thought it meant to be a Christian, and he said, "Live a good, wholesome life"

What an AWESOME opportunity for me to clear up the common misconception that Christianity is nothing more than a bunch of behavioral mandates. Unfortunately, even some who Name Christ as their Savior believe that their spiritual health is measured by behavior.

So I undertook to show him, in my bible, How Romans 1-4 progresses from people not acknowledging God, to how there is no excuse, and that God is not a respecter of persons, that all of have fallen short of the glory of God, and we all need to be saved. And that Abraham was our example, and that believing in Christ for eternal life is the only hope of salvation.

Did he believe me? He seemed to. Did he believe in Christ? I have no idea. But I can guarantee one thing - cigarette or not, I spoke to him about Christ. He had a huge misconception that Christianity boils down to works, and I was blessed to be able to clear that up for him

Unfortunate occurrence, but doesn't prove anything. What you or I or anyone else thinks, besides God, makes no difference. Jesus said that many of the Pharisees looked clean and shiny on the outside, but inside were empty tombs full of dead men's bones, a brood of vipers, sons of the devil, blind men leading the blind, and all sorts of other things.

He made it real clear that what someone looks like on the outside is not a clear indicator of what's inside.

We shouldn't go out of our way to look like heathens, but when I'm simply living life, and someone thinks I'm not "acting" Christian, that is the BEST opportunity to share Christ. The most damaging thing you can do to the cause of Christianity, is to leave an unbeliever thinking that we are all "working" our way to heaven

And that's all this "fruit inspecting" does.

Too many self appointed fruit inspectors, in the wrong orchard, looking at the wrong fruit

 

Hello James

Are you a member of a local church?

Is it a brick building full of stuffed shirts...?

Jesus loves the church.

 

That would be up to the members of that congregation to decide. Living in the north is expensive.Starving the pastor and his family is no virtue.

 

Hi, Iconoclast

I am still technically a "member" of the Southern Baptist I moved from about two months ago.

God has called me to become joined to the church where my son attends school. Yes, Jesus loves the church. He also loves stuffed shirts. And yes, there are some stuffed shirts here, too.

But, like I said, the Body of Christ is not confined to a brick building full of stuffed shirts. The Body of Christ is invisible, being comprised of every manner of person, who all simply believe in Jesus as their only hope of eternal life.

That brick building where our church meets is not the only place where believers are found. Some believers gather in prison, because they have committed crimes that keeps them there. They have no choice but to have their bible studies and fellowship in a "wretched" place

And if that's good enough for Christ, then why can't a bar be good enough?

I would suppose there are worse things happening in prison than in a bar

 

JamesL

Hello JL,thanks for your response.:wavey:

.

James....I understand what a person means when they express this idea.A person who others speak of in this manner might be wrapped to tight,or take themselves too seriously.
Sometimes however this expression is employed to avoid being a member of a local body, and interacting with "brother stuffed shirt" to round off some rough edges.
Sometimes young professed christians look down on sincere believers who are seeking a holy life, a godly life.....they could be doing so in the Spirit, or in the flesh.
Nevertheless God brings in all manner of persons into a local visible assembly;
22 No, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary. 23 And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable, on these we bestow greater honor; and our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, 24 but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, 25 that there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

Individual members of the Kingdom are scattered around....the assembly, assembles.

Yes...God saves sinners...even in prison

Jesus spent time with sinners.....I do not remember where He was said to be...in a pub.They accused Him because he spoke with them.

 

And how are you better than they by "saying what you want" about them, calling them "stuffed shirts"? It's a full time Christian job trying to not be a hypocrite. It ain't easy, myself included.

And all of us can easily justify our behavior by our conscience. The flesh is still a powerful force which needs to be kept in check. What about the Word of God? Why don't we adjust our lives to what God tells us to do for our own good? Icono gave some good scriptures, there are many more which instruct us to reject the evil ways of the world. Face the facts, bars and pubs are created for drunkards. If your honest goal to be in one is to preach the gospel then go for it, but let's not pretend, we cannot fool God.

 

:thumbsup::wavey::thumbsup:

 

If the congregation determines to reward him that is great., He is still responsible before God for his stewardship of that money.Many people make more than I do.I am content with God's provision.

 

I never claimed to be better than anyone. It's a matter of Christian liberty. I get so tired of weaker brethren, who feel compelled to live under a system of restrictions and regulations, trying to impose on those who understand their liberty. There is generally no reasoning with them. Here is Webster's definition of a stuffed shirt:

Most of the stuffed shirts I've encountered have a "Look what I'm doing for God" attitude. Pompous jerks can say what they want. And they are inflexibly conservative, and have a definite reactionary attitude - Stuffed Shirts


"They" can think what they want. I don't go to bars, nor do I drink. But if I wanted to do either, it is a matter of my liberty. I have no right to practice my liberty in such a way as to make those weaker brethren offended.

What that means is that if I decided to have a beer, I would have no right to bring it to a church softball game, or Wednesday fellowship potluck, and flaunt my liberty in front of their faces. Then mock them for being weaker when they get offended

At the same time, they have no right to try to impose their limitations upon someone who understands liberty. Then cast indignation toward someone who walks in liberty

Sounds like EWF is keeping up his end of the liberty issue, but the stuffed shirts aren't.

Maybe I've missed it, but I don't believe I've read anywhere that EWF goes to a bar to fraternize with drunkards. Can you provide a quote for me, since I obviously missed it?

You're trying to super-impose your own ball and chain upon the liberty of stronger believers. Read Romans 14, and grow in liberty.


And as for Iconoclast's scripture references, I won't try to pretend he didn't post them. He and I exchanged a couple of thoughts, and it might rest there. It might not. But, I don't like scriptural jousting on these sorts of issues. One says wine is a mocker, another rebuts that Jesus ate and drank with sinners. It simply pits scripture against scripture, and if two people don't approach scripture from the same paradigm, then it is very fruitless and God dishonoring way to do business.

 

I do not see why you object to Steavers post. What did he say that you speak harshly to him?

 

Here is another...

11 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying,

12 If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any meat, shall it be holy? And the priests answered and said, No.

13 Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean.

14 Then answered Haggai, and said, So is this people, and so is this nation before me, saith the Lord; and so is every work of their hands; and that which they offer there is unclean.